NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: wallace11bravo on March 08, 2012, 11:19:07 PM
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Show us some love!
http://www.facebook.com/NebraskaStudentsForConcealedCarry (http://www.facebook.com/NebraskaStudentsForConcealedCarry)
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Thanks for getting this started, we have been trying to talk people into getting an active chapter here for a couple of years. Look forward to working together.
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No problem!
I am hoping to have the first meeting with a volunteer board of directors within a couple months. I am drafting the powerpoint for the first meeting right now. Cooperation, partnership, and advising from the NFOA and the national SCC are key elements to making something happen.
BTW, currently seeking candidates for Campus directors right now. I have one for Doane and a possible for UNL, if anyone out there is interested, drop me a PM!
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I'ma Southeast slacker here in Lincoln, this looks interesting.
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Oh man! Don't you guys know that campus carry isn't a deterrent and all you'll do is shoot each other 'cause you're hopelessly inept 'cause you don't work for the government?
:)
Good luck!
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I will be transferring from UNL to UNO after this semester. When I get there I will get a hold of you and look into it. Been wanting to do some kind of SCC for a while now but haven't bit the bullet.
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I'm a Grad school at UNL but go to the UNO campus. Let me know if i can assist or get involved.
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W11B, whatever I can do to help let me know. In the last couple of years I have developed a lot of contacts and am entirely willing to share.
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First day distributing the flyer. I pinned it up and left it on some tables at the student union at UNL, the energy square and east O SCC campuses. I was told that unapproved media cannot be hung at SCC locations, but they cannot do anything about handing it out or "accidentally" leaving them on tables.
Here is a copy of the flyer, print and distribute!
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4453/flyer1aa.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/flyer1aa.jpg/)
Would like to get a few people together to do a small, couple hour, empty holster protest at UNL student union within the next couple of weeks. Will be distributing the flyer, wearing empty holsters, and discussing with anyone who has any comments or questions. First step is to increase support and awareness. If anyone is interested let me know!
Also, I am not very familiar with UNL east campus, where would be the best place for flyer distro there?
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East campus union. I have a feeling east campus would be great recruiting ground.
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I also have some factual handouts ready to go. Here is what they look like:
Nebraska Students for Concealed Carry
Nebraska Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is a non-partisan, grassroots organization aimed at drawing attention to the fact that holders of concealed handgun licenses/concealed carry weapons permits are forced by state laws and school policies to disarm before entering most college campuses, despite being legally permitted to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere else—office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls , etc.
Declaring a college campus a “gun free zone” may make some people feel safer, but as the April 16, 2007, massacre at Virginia Tech and the February 14, 2008, massacre at Northern Illinois University illustrated, feeling safe is not the same as being safe. Denying licensed individuals the means to defend themselves on college campuses turns institutions of higher learning into supermarkets for would-be rapists and mass murderers.
Current state laws and school policies prohibit licensed, law-abiding citizens from carrying concealed handguns onto college campuses, while doing nothing to disarm individuals not concerned with following the rules. These laws and policies hand armed madmen, like the Virginia Tech and NIU killers, virtual cornucopias of defenseless victims. In the event of a school shooting, students and faculty are left with no recourse but to hide under their desks, hoping to survive until enough police arrive to formulate a plan and storm the building.
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus hopes that increased awareness of the discrepancy between the rules on college campuses and the rules outside of college campuses will motivate citizens to push state legislators and campus administrators to amend existing laws and policies so that concealed handgun license/concealed carry weapons permit holders can legally carry their firearms on college campuses, the same way they currently do at almost all other unsecured (no metal detectors or x-ray machines) locations.
In the State of Nebraska, a CHL/CCW applicant must be 21 years of age or older, pass both state and federal (FBI) fingerprint and background checks ( including investigations into records of mental health and sealed/expunged criminal records), attend a state mandated training course, pass both a written and a practical (shooting) test, and have his or her fingerprints and photograph on file with both state authorities and the FBI. Statistically*, concealed handgun license/concealed carry weapons permit holders commit violent crimes at a rate five times lower than non-license holders. CHL/CCW holders are neither criminals nor vigilantes hoping for the chance to shoot a “bad guy;” they are concerned citizens, just like you, who desire the means to extricate themselves from danger, should the unimaginable occur.
NSCC demands to know why individuals who are deemed by state and federal authorities to be competent and trustworthy enough to carry concealed handguns elsewhere are denied this right on college campuses.
For more information on the issue of concealed carry on campus and why it would NOT lead to more violence on college campuses or detract from the educational process, please visit:
www.ConcealedCampus.com (http://www.ConcealedCampus.com).
NEBRASKA STUDENTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY
The Facts
- 47 states currently issue Concealed Carry Weapons permits (CCWs) or Concealed Handgun Licenses (CHLs).
*Vermont neither offers nor requires a license to carry a handgun (openly or concealed). Illinois and Wisconsin do not have provisions for legal concealed carry.
- Criminals are more afraid of confronting a potential victim with a gun than they are of the police.
*U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report (July 1985)
- 3/5 of convicted felons say they would not “mess around” with a person they suspected might have a gun.
*U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report (July 1985)
- CCW/CHL holders are statistically LESS violent than the rest of the population. They are arrested for violent crimes at a rate five times lower than non-license holders (even lower than police officers in many states).
*Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998
*Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000
*FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 2004 - excludes Hawaii and Rhode Island - small populations and geographic isolation create other determinants to violent crime.
*John Lott and David Mustard, “Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997)
* William E. Sturdevant, “An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,”
September 1, 2000
*"D.C. Police Paying for Hiring Binge," Washington Post, 8/28/94
*Memorandum by James T. Moore, Commissioner of Florida's Department of Law Enforcement, to the Office of the Governor, dated 3/15/95
- Despite the predictions of those who opposed the passage of state Concealed Carry laws, when such laws were first proposed two decades ago, the presence of concealed handguns has not created an epidemic of everyday arguments turning into shootings.
*Colorado State University and all public universities in Utah allow CHL/CCW holders to carry their firearms on campus. Those schools have not had any problems.
*"I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come
to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." -- Glenn White, president of
the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97
*"I...[felt] that such legislation present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in
Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my fears absolutely groundless." -- Harris County [Texas] District Attorney John Holmes, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97
*"Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." -- Fairfax County
VA Police Major Bill Brown, Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97
*"I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." -- Arlington County VA Police Detective Paul Larson, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97
*"The concerns I had--with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons--we haven't experienced that." -- Charlotte-
Mecklenburg NC Police Chief Dennis Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97
- Concealed Carry Laws reduce mass public shootings.
*Lott, J., Landes, W.; "Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement;"
University of Chicago – covers years 1977 to 1995
- Reducing the number of guns does NOT reduce violent crime.
*Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser, “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence”
- The United States Supreme Court has ruled that police have NO duty to protect the lives of citizens, yet concealed handgun license holders must leave their greatest means of defenses behind when they step onto college campuses.
*"...law enforcement officers have no affirmative duty to provide such protection..." - South v. Maryland, 1856
*"...there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen." - Bowers v. DeVito, 1982
- Concealed handgun license holders carry for defense of life only. They do not act like the police and actively seek out a shooter.
- Nearly every “shootout” between two armed individuals is over in less than 10 seconds. Mass shootings can exceed 30 minutes.
*In The Line of Fire: Violence Against Law Enforcement, U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Institute of Justice, 1997
*The real Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, a gunfight involving nine armed participants, lasted only about 30 seconds.
*Virginia Tech massacre – 9 minutes; Columbine High School massacre – 49 minutes; Luby’s Cafeteria massacre – 15 minutes
- Most victims of mass shootings are shot at pointblank range, by assailants who move slowly and methodically from victim to victim. It requires neither superhuman reflexes nor deadeye accuracy to defend oneself against such an attack.
- Police forces are trained to expect armed “bad guys” and armed “good guys”—be it off-duty/undercover police officers or armed civilians—in tactical scenarios. CHL holders are state and FBI certified “good guys.”
- There are no significant differences between carrying a concealed handgun on a college campus and carrying a concealed handgun in an office building, shopping mall, restaurant, grocery store, bank, or movie theater (a few of the places CHL/CCW holders are currently permitted to carry concealed handguns).
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Looks great! May want to review and update the facts section, as Wisconsin now has CCW.
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Fixed it, thanks! I also removed where it said CCW can carry in banks in the bottom portion. I'm working with material from the national SCC so it obviously needs to be modified for state level.
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Not every state prohibits "bank carry" e.g. Texas..if you're just intending to leave as a general statement and not Nebraska specific.
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Took me two hours, but I just finished 49 personalized emails to 49 of our state's senators on behalf of Nebraska Students for Concealed Carry. I urge all of you to contact your senators and express support for our organizations goals. I realize that it is too late for any new bills, but it is an uphill battle folks, need to get started early!
I am also seeking assistance with the upcoming "Empty Holster Protest" scheduled for the first week in April, to coincide with the national organization. I would like to have a strong presence at both UNL campuses. I would like to hold a meeting on the 18 March with those interested in becoming active in this organization.
Still seeking campus directors, Doane is the only slot filled so far.
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Just my opinions
I think the NFOA should be involved in this. The benefit 10 years down the road is almost limitless. If the next generation of educated Nebraskans has been presented the facts and are allowed to come to their own conclusions,our cause can only benefit.
However, I would caution that an educational approach, more than confrontational, would be the wisest way to move forward, at least initially. Going into the lion's den,(Academia is led by the ultra-liberals),their initial defense will be to portray gun activists as aggressive zealots. When they are faced with calm,logical,presentation of the facts;their position will become tenuous. Their only defense is hysterical passion. Take away the doomsday predictions and they don't have a leg to stand on. Beat on truth all you want,it still shines through at the end. The students will (mostly) come around. RJ
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Kudos to W11B for the energy and passion combined with good common sense he is exhibiting in furthering this cause.
Excellent job designing that flyer!
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It doesn't happen often :P, but I must concur with omaharj on this one ;) Educating the naysayers would be a best approach, especially at the beginning. Gain their respect as well rounded, educated, diplomatic, young persons. Do not stoop to their level of emotional protests.
I'll be honest here, I am sort of the fence on this subject, thus my reason for not responding, yet. Would I like responsible young adults to be able to carry on campus, should they feel they need to, and have some sort of training? SURE, but as I have stated previously, sometimes I am skeptical of there being very many responsible young adults in the college scene (the papers/police sure paint a pretty dim picture.) That being said, I keep thinking about my daughter entering college (sooner than I am willing to admit to myself), and wish she would be able to defend herself, mostly to and from classes, etc. with something more than a cellphone or pepper spray. Soooo.....
I support the idea, now I guess I am asking for y'all to show me why I should support you. That may sound a little harsh, not meant to be, it's just that I have seen this, and other issues, pushed too hard, too fast, which caused the opposite effect.
Take all the Open Carry rallies for instance. Sure they garnered the cause allot of attention. But in the end, either nothing was accomplished other than give the cause a bit of a back eye, (as far as Joe Public was concerned) or as in Kali, the right was legislated out all together. So needless to say, I cringe at the thought of public 'rallies' Sometimes I think we need to step back and look at things from the other side's point of view.
I guess what I would like to see is a semi-formal meeting of reps from the NSCC and NFOA with the University of Nebraska powers that be. Present them with rational facts they can't refute (you seem to have plenty of gooduns listed above. What would be sweet is to have any facts on cases of assault (sexual, deadly, potentially fatal or otherwise) on and around UN property, or any other places of higher learning within the state. Brings me to another point (something a fellow blogger 'TJ' turned me to recently ), get some ladies involved! (here I go beating this horse again) but a woman's opinion can be very influential. (ask any married or otherwise engaged male :-[ ) Also, Odds are everyone/someone on that board will have a daughter, his little princess, and the thought of her not being able to defend herself against a sexual predator (on his campus) will sicken him to no end, keeping him awake at night. Many state legislators turned to the ladies' view to remove the idea of CCW being a bunch of cowboys rolling the streets looking for trouble into the 'little lady' packin a lil snubby in her purse 'in-case something should ever happen'. Getting folks to that neutral point ; not passionately for the idea, but not exactly against it either, can be the smallest hurdle with greater potential for gain.
As you stated, you are in the early stages of things, and it will be a long uphill battle, so as all the great Generals have done, attempt to make peace with the enemy, all the while gathering intelligence, enlisting troops, readying the artillery, and surrounding them from all sides, removing any avenue of retreat! >:D
Ok that's my advice/opinion worth about $.02 for the day. Take it or leave it.
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Count me in to help out with Metro CC. I don't really have the time to be a leader but I can certainly help out.
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By all means, this organization is still pretty fresh, and there are a lot of decisions that should not be left up to only myself (Why I need to get some campus directors up in here!)
I wholeheartedly agree that education is the best method, especially for those who are completely unaware on the issue. I would love to hold meeting with faculty and NFOA reps, but that is still a little ways out.
For the time being I am concentrating on recruiting support. I distributed 15 of the two-page sheets shown above today, of course there are those that are forever naysayers, I do not argue, I just apologize for taking their time and walk away. I am getting pretty good at spotting those who look like they would support the cause, even among the faculty (boots, hunting camo, and ACU backpacks are huge giveaways).
Again, I need to build a good support base before any action is taken, and that is the intention with my current actions and with the upcoming empty holster protest. (to be honest, and again I do not think I should be the only one making these decisions, I was/am planning on omitting the "holster" and "protest" portions, and just having a few students at the unions distributing handouts and discussing with those that are interested)
Meeting set for 5:00pm March 25th at the UNL City Campus Union, near coffee bar. THIS IS NOT A PROTEST, just a meeting, it will be fairly informal and we will be discussing and refining our plan of action and goals, refining guidelines for conduct, establishing a taskorg, and discussing plans for upcoming events.
http://www.facebook.com/events/192957944145947/ (http://www.facebook.com/events/192957944145947/)
Keep in mind, you do not have to be a student to participate. If a NFOA rep would like to attend, I would much appreciate it.
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Received potentially positive responses from two state legislators so far:
Senator Tony Fulton (29, south central Lincoln)
Senator Pete Pirsch (4, western Omaha-ish)
Both expressed interest in meeting in person, Senator Tony used particularly positive wording. I'll be holding off meeting them in person until I can get everything/everyone more organized, and receive counsel from veteran NFOA members/directors on proper protocol for these meetings. I would prefer to avoid any missteps, political or personal, so early on this journey. If Dan or Allen would be willing to let me 'tag along' to an NFOA meeting with one or more legislators, I would much appreciate it.
Also, as far as females in the organization: the campus director for Doane is a lovely young lady whom I recently introduced to firearms. I spoke to my German professor today, and much to my surprise, she has a CHP and used to open carry daily when she worked on the NA reservation (she doesn't look/act the type at all). I am hoping to talk her into taking an active role in the organization in the future. Also received a very negative response from an English teacher... eh, she's not even a citizen, but she had said some things before that made me believe she would be supportive. Kinda puzzling.
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Sen. Fulton, i've heard good things about this guy...
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Sen. Fulton, I've heard good things about this guy...
Yes, Senator Fulton is a great guy and very supportive to work with, unfortunately this is his last year in the Legislature. I hear that there may be something exciting for him in the near future once his time in the Legislature is over but I have not heard what, thats being kept under wraps at the moment.
Even with him not being in the Legislature he would be able to assist in writing bills, teaching how to effectively Lobby, and sharing who will be your friends and who will be opposed to your efforts. The education he can give is invaluable.
This is where I take a moment and thank all the Senators who take the time to teach us how to be more effective and all the little things they do to help make organizations like ours go.
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With the education crowd you'll certainly need logical arguments with statistics to counter every one of the media myths you'll run into. Best of luck!
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Common sense does not prevail in institutions of "higher learning".
The big red U of N controls the legislature..... They get whatever they want. Convince them guns are good and you can fix the entire state. (OK, except the city of Omaha) ------ It absolutely disgusts me that taxpayer dollars fund a good chunk of this institution and yet their liberal, lack of common sense leaders dictate whatever they want with the Legislature.
I worked for MCC for 10 years....... For faculty active shooter training, their "so called Police Chief" told me I should throw a stapler or a chair at a guy with an AK 47 if he turned on me...... Seriously......... I decided I valued my personal safety more than I enjoyed my teaching job there, so I left.
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It's gambling, plain and simple. School administrations and school boards will bet on a numbers game in the hopes that "it doesn't happen here." School shootings, statistically, are rare. But so are fires (and we have 10 drills for that every year), tornadoes, bomb threats...you get the point. In our "Code Red" drill I huddle all my students in the coat area.... all together in one little area... in the hopes that nobody sees us. Gambling.
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Husker XDM; Very true. They will say that crime on campus is rare, but they spend millions on campus police and security. Are you a staff member at a education institution? If so, which one? Would love to have your input at our first meeting.
Chris: Thanks for the input on UNL's influence in state legislature. Winning the support of the administration would be a huge boost, and I am hoping to achieve that in due time, and hopefully with NFOA's assistance.
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Wallace I didn't want to bash the most recent post on facebook there, so I thought I would bring it to your attention here.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. - Sigmund Freud.
Please never post such garbage that makes us look like immature fourth graders that get a laugh out of insensitive absurd comments. I have been looking forward to joining a group that uses logic to get a point across, not one that is not taken seriously.
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Sorry about that, it was posted by another admin. I spoke to the individual about it. It has been removed. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
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In addition, this quote is often misattributed to Freud.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud)
Wallace,
You sound like a very intelligent man. I am sure you are well aware of the hurtles you have ahead of you. The biggest misconception you need to overcome is the attitude that students are not mature enough for such a right. You can not give them any reason to think otherwise.
Good luck!
Fly
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@Wallace, I work in an elementary school in Lincoln, and aspire to be an administrator. Your situation is somewhat different than mine, and yet it all boils down to the fact that we aren't allowed to defend ourselves during a large portion of our days. I'll see what I can swing as far as coming to the meeting.
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Fly,
Oh I most certainly understand. I assure you that I intend to convey guidelines for intelligent, fact driven debate at our first meeting. As was said earlier, facts will eventually overcome feelings and speculation.
I know it sounds like I'm bull****ting, but I assure you that was not posted by me. I took it down immediately after learning about it here, and spoke to the individual who posted it. Sorry that I cannot give you more than my word on that.
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Sorry about that, it was posted by another admin. I spoke to the individual about it. It has been removed. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
It is still in the wall photos section. Thanks for removing the post though
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Fly,
Oh I most certainly understand. I assure you that I intend to convey guidelines for intelligent, fact driven debate at our first meeting. As was said earlier, facts will eventually overcome feelings and speculation.
I know it sounds like I'm bullguanoting, but I assure you that was not posted by me. I took it down immediately after learning about it here, and spoke to the individual who posted it. Sorry that I cannot give you more than my word on that.
I am not doubting you in the least. Just suggesting that anyone who is going to help you spearhead this movement needs to be thoroughly briefed on why that kind of commentary will work against you. Just as having to deal with employees is likely the most stressful part of running a company, you too are going to have to spend a lot of time keeping everyone's emotions in check. I don't envy you, but I do hope you succeed.
Fly
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Last call for the meeting tonight! 5:00pm @ the city campus student union (near the coffee bar)
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Results of our initial meeting:
1. The NSCC will ask the Nebraska Firearms Owner's Association to be it's "parent" organization.
2. An advanced CCW permit bill, allowing CCW on campus and every other unsecured public location, will be our primary objective for legislative action.
3. We still need active members who are willing to donate time and resources to this organization.
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It was good to meet you tonight
-HuskerXDM aka Dave
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Apparently a UNO Art Teacher got carjacked last night in the parking lot. The law clearly works
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Here's the UNO Carjacking Story............
http://www.omaha.com/article/20120330/NEWS97/703309874 (http://www.omaha.com/article/20120330/NEWS97/703309874)
FYI,
sfg
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Thanks, I'll be using that.
If this had happened to me, I would be working up a suit against the State right meow.
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The campus-wide e-mail will encourage students, faculty and staff to call campus security immediately if they see anything suspicious.
Nope, nothing to see here...they've got it handled