NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Firearms Training and Education => Topic started by: wallace11bravo on September 25, 2012, 06:38:27 PM
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This is just a VERY tentative heads up and interest feeler for a 2 day Long Range Precision Rifle Clinic that I am starting to put together for the fall of 2013.
I want to be very clear, this is all very tentative. I am only trying to make sure there is enough interest for this.
!!!ALL DETAILS ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!
Date: A weekend in September/October 2013
Time: 2 days (weekend) 8:00am-6:00pm
Location: WMA near Dwight Nebraska
Max Participants: 8-10
Cost: $200 each
Required Equipment:
-Rifle: minimum caliber .223, maximum .338 lapua
-Magnified optic: minimum 3x with either a BDC reticle or dials
-400 rds of ammo
-databook
-rear bag
-eyepro/earpro
-bipods or pack/bags for support
Topics:
Not that this will be a *clinic*, not a *course*. As such we will start out with a half day of zeroing and working on the fundamentals. The second half of the first day will be for gaining and truing ballistic algorithms (A computer and printer will be used on site, if you have your own PDA or other system, that would be fine). The second day will consist of various topics including mil-relation formula, reading wind and atmospheric data, compensating for same, gathering dope, spotting and team techniques, and of course, hammering home the fundamentals.
Steel will be out to 1000 meters, and this class is geared toward the bolt action precision rifle gang, but (depending on how my partner feels) something like an AR-15 with an ACOG (more of a designated marksman) may be allowed.
Some site limitation prevent some things we would otherwise do:
-You will see no movers
-There will be little-to-no correction for slope
We will probably still talk about these subjects, but we will be unable to practice them.
So why the wishy washy feeler?
The lead instructor/coach will be an old colleague of mine, I will be acting as an assistant instructor/coach. He will be just returned from his 3rd combat tour when he and I will be putting on this clinic. That being said, alot can happen between now and then, so if this all falls through and ends up not happening, or happening much later, don't say I didn't warn you. I do need to make sure there is enough interest to fill this class prior to getting him locked down (AKA away from his wife for 3-4 days right after a 12 monther)
A little bit about him:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img846/2263/15022329021558411563470.jpg)
Josh Veraguth from St. Joesph, MO. Currently assigned to Ft. Lewis Washington. Current location: some guanoty place in a guanoty country.
Joined the army the same week as I did, we met at my first unit and stayed close our entire careers. He has always been an exceptionally good shot and was picked up almost immediately by a sniper team. He served 2 tours on that same team, the second as the team leader. He has completed the US Army Sniper School and various other less official courses. He has also helped teach and instruct several courses, including the US Army Sniper School's travelling act and several that I attended (he also attended classes that I taught, so we are even ;). He is a plethora of knowledge and skills in his field, and to this day, I still pick is brain every chance I get.
If you have a solid interest in this, feel free to leave a comment and/or any questions you may have. Remember this is very tentative, and an actual date or any other "solid" info will probably not be seen until July-August of next year.
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Very interested.
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I'd be up for it. Hopefully I'll have a new rifle by then. ^-^
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Interested.
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I suggest you get paid up front deposits enough to cover your expenses because those who say interested seldom show up. Money up front thins out the posers.
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I suggest you get paid up front deposits enough to cover your expenses because those who say interested seldom show up. Money up front thins out the posers.
Been teaching classes for a while, thanks though. I always do full payment upfront.
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Interested
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I would be, except 400 rnds for my rifle would run close to $400. One day perhaps...
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I am interested!
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i am interested as well. but we'll see how much money i have at that time.
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Interested, depending on end-cost.
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Having the class open to Designated Marksman type rifles will make is a lot more accessible, both from an ammo and rifle standpoint.
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Having the class open to Designated Marksman type rifles will make is a lot more accessible, both from an ammo and rifle standpoint.
Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but what is a "Designated Marksman" type of rifle?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle)
Not really a sniper, but more of a sharpshooter role in support of an infantry unit. Typically would use an M-16 type rifle with some kind of magnified optic.
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Having the class open to Designated Marksman type rifles will make is a lot more accessible, both from an ammo and rifle standpoint.
Given that it is a clinic, and not a course, they will likely be allowed, but not generally recommended. Much of it will not be applicable or practical.
My Basic Long Range Marksmanship course is intended as a DM/intro to precision rifle course, while this clinic is meant as more of an intermediate precision rifle thang.
Feel free to go to https://sites.google.com/site/midwesttacticalsolutions/class-schedule and request a particular date and location of your choice, and check the box for BLRM. You will be required to complete a modified Rifle Marksmanship block as well (ART, BRM, ARM), but it could be done in the same day.
Off topic: DMs are issued M14 EBRs with 10x Mk4s as well as M4s with ACOGs, and in some units are allowed to purchase their own upper receivers and other goodies or may receive special issue upper receivers and goodies. They typically must qualify expert, and are otherwise known to be good shots and complete a 2 week course to be REAL DMs, although many receive the equipment and no training, and have no real idea of what they are doing.
By doctrine, the following defines the max effective ranges of these roles on 40"x20" Etype targets.
Riflemen: 300m
DM: 600m
Automatic Riflemen: 600m (M249 on bipods)
Sniper: 800m (M110 or M24) However the "golden standard" for experienced teams is 1000m
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Thanks BK
Maybe Wallace could come up with a class for the 500yd crowd, and still have something for the 1000yd crowd. Certainly is a cost factor when comparing the ammo to be used. I know it would be difficult going thru $400 worth. ::)
Another thought for Wallace. I'll bet there are alot of people with the same situation as mine. I don't have the first clue with what it takes to shoot at any distance past 100 yds. Maybe a beginner type class to learn the basics with fewer rounds and more instruction, then maybe an advanced class to really challenge the long gunners.
Just thinkin what would be the best way to start for people that don't have any basic knowledge. Like me. ???
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Start buying ammo now. Buy 33+/- rounds a month and you'll be set by next fall. $200 + $400 in ammo is a pretty good deal for this kind of "clinic", IMO.
For anyone that's interested, I'm happy to connect you with my buddy who is an ammunition manufacturer. You'll probably save quite a bit on quality precision rifle ammo.
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What's your thoughts on using an AR10 with an Acog? I may be interested if I can get it worked into the schedule.
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I would be interested, but one question would you allow Reloads? I know most classes/clinics don't.
Thanks
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I would be interested, but one question would you allow Reloads? I know most classes/clinics don't.
Thanks
Good question. If he doesn't, I'm out.
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Reloads would be fine, it's all I use. I can make better ammo than they manufacture for much much cheaper. Since it is a clinic and curriculum is flexible, I could talk about some steps to make more consistent (read accurate) reloads, as well as tuning reloads to your particular weapon.
The DM (ACOG) type weapons would (probably) be fine, but just being honest, my BLRM curriculum is more fitting for for such platforms, this clinic would be more oriented towards PR crowd.