NFOA MEMBERS FORUM

General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: wusker on January 30, 2013, 02:43:20 PM

Title: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: wusker on January 30, 2013, 02:43:20 PM: Hopefully most of you can find it in it's entirety I watched as much as was possible. I am new to this, being a new gun owner so I do have some questions. Be gentle with me.

-What is so bad about universal background checks?
-I am guessing they are not currently required for private sales.
-If I was selling my brand new M&P 9, I would require the buyer to have a Nebr. purchase permit, does this make me unloved by other gun owners ;)

I realize this would not fix the issue of violience as it is a systemic issue within America, And as Mr. Lapierre (sp?) explained that 78% of gun violence occurs with a handgun and out of those 10's of thousands, less than 100 were prosecuted. But it might cut back on some gun violence, and would that be worth it?

'Nuff Said
Wusker
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: 00BUCK on January 30, 2013, 03:19:36 PM: I speak for only myself, but I don't see how they would possibly prevent gang bangers and other criminals from getting firearms. The weapons they are using are not being bought at gun shows. They are most likely stolen firearms being sold on the street. Using Sandy Hook as the example that is now at the forefront, the weapons used were stolen weapons. Would universal background checks have prevented that tragedy? NO! So it is just one more stupid law that is laid upon us that will do NOTHING to stop "gun crime". And isn't that how the gun haters are packaging this - "to stop gun crime"? That said, yes I am 100% opposed to any additional stupid laws that will do NOTHING but further infringe / inconvenience my 2A rights.

Another way to look at it is you want to go to Billy Joe Jim Bob's bait and liquor to by a bottle of Wild Turkey 101. The crusty old guy behind the counter says "Do you have your I have never drank and drove card? Oh, you don't? I'll have to call the state patrol to see if you have ever been convicted of drinking and driving before I can sell you a bottle".

This BS has NOTHING to do with "safety" and EVERYTHING to do with laying the groundwork for weapons registration and ultimately (attempted) confiscation.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: sparky on January 30, 2013, 03:41:50 PM: You must have a Nebraska Purchase Permit to buy any pistol private or at a FFL, you do not have to have a Nebraska Purchase Permit to buy a rifle privately or at a gunshow. So the only loophole that they are referring to is buying a rifle would require a Nebraska Purchase Permit or nics check for private sales and at gunshows.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Phantom on January 30, 2013, 04:01:49 PM: Quote from: wusker on January 30, 2013, 02:43:20 PM
-What is so bad about universal background checks?
-I am guessing they are not currently required for private sales.
-If I was selling my brand new M&P 9, I would require the buyer to have a Nebr. purchase permit, does this make me unloved by other gun owners

Ok as i understand it Universal background checks are background checks on EVERY transfer,
sale, purchase, trade, gift, rental, and loan of a firearm between any and all individuals.

All background checks must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer.
Universal background checks have nothing to do with gun shows – it's about you.

what does that mean to you ?
if you to give your M&P 9 to your 12-year-old grandson to teach him to shoot or give it to him when he's older you'd have to do a background check on your grandson before giving him the M&P 9
Same think if your mother had prowlers at her home, you'd have to do a background on her before you could give her one of your guns for protection.

universal background checks would turn typical innocent actions by you into a criminal offenses.
and all must be done and conducted through a federally licensed dealer.

You can forget the Nebraska purchase permit way of doing it .........you'd need a FFL gun dealer first before you buy, sell, trade or even give away a gun or Ammo (this is also to be included as i understand it)

then we get into Transfer fees for the each of the above transactions.....

Understand better now ?

Oh but i forgot the best part .......in order to make sure you do it ...
Every Handgun, Rifle, and Shotgun needs to be registered and placed in the federal gun owner database.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Husker_Fan on January 30, 2013, 04:38:31 PM: Like sparky said, we have universal background checks for handguns in this state. Of course, the fact that even the chief of the Bellevue PD ignored the law shows its effectiveness.

Maybe the AG and the county attorney's should start enforcing the current law and charge everyone caught with a gun who has never had a purchase permit. That's something that could be done right now without passing another law that won't impact the criminals.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Husker_Fan on January 30, 2013, 04:39:47 PM: On a side note, that also means giving your state rep encouragement to fund such prosecutions. I think there is a fear among some of them that pushing for more enforcement will take away from the pot of money available to get them reelected.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: AAllen on January 30, 2013, 07:19:25 PM: OK problems with "universal background checks" as proposed, first it creates a federal registration of all firearms. Next it stops the in family type transfer without going through the background check, next every transfer either needs to be done by an FFL or the Police. If the person you are selling the firearm to does not pass the background check then they need to do a background check on you to make certain that you can have your gun back, fail for any reason (including errors by the FBI) and you lost your gun, and if that does not happen and you get your gun back you pay for two transfers (fee set at $15 each, way below what anyone charges for transfers) and the FFL ends up being legally liable if the firearm they transfered has issues (it has to go into there books for the transfer).

Then of course who really thinks that a criminal is going to buy their gun with a background check, they are breaking lots of other laws buying and selling firearms without background checks will not bother them.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Mudinyeri on January 31, 2013, 09:53:58 AM: I disagree with Andy ... a little bit. Universal background checks don't automatically equal federal registration of all firearms. Universal background checks COULD equate to federal registration of all firearms, but that is not an absolute certainty. The difference, I think, is where we often get hung up. Anti-gun extremists, for lack of a better term, would like to see federal registration of firearms as a component of universal background checks. Others, with a more moderate view of gun rights, might be willing to negotiate.

The problem is this - criminals steal guns or purchase stolen guns. How would a universal background check prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals?

I'll lay down a challenge for those who embrace universal background checks. Show me a background check that can PREVENT a murder and I'll show you a pink unicorn that farts rainbows.

Gabby Giffords said it in her brief speech before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Gun Violence yesterday. "We must do something."

Agreed. We must do something about violence in our culture. However, we should do something that will actually have an impact on reducing violence rather than something that will have no impact while trampling on the enumerated rights of millions of law-abiding citizens.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: kozball on January 31, 2013, 10:20:09 AM: Quote from: Mudinyeri on January 31, 2013, 09:53:58 AM

and I'll show you a pink unicorn that farts rainbows.

Mud, you been in those special brownies again? Remember what happened last time your went boating? ;D

I think you nailed it here. It is not about the guns, it's about people. The checks that are in place should do the job for legal purchases. Bad guys don't do legal.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 11:23:41 AM: Mud please take note of the qualifier in my statement. "universal background checks" as proposed.

Could they just open up the NICS system so anyone can call in to do a check, yes but that is not what has been proposed.

As far as the rest of your statement, we are in total agreement!
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Mudinyeri on January 31, 2013, 11:43:21 AM: Quote from: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Mud please take note of the qualifier in my statement. "universal background checks" as proposed.

Are you referring to Feinstein's bill, Andy?
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Phantom on January 31, 2013, 12:18:07 PM: Mud it's a totally separate bill from the Feinstein one

Obama wants bad too .... for some reason

Its would be a new version of the NICS system
and I'm sure they'd tie it into the national Id card system they are currently implementing

(It's going to be your New state drivers license and Passport all in one)

That way in years to come they can setup check points at state borders and restrict your movement if they want.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 12:21:18 PM: Quote from: Mudinyeri on January 31, 2013, 11:43:21 AM
Are you referring to Feinstein's bill, Andy?

As Phantom said it is a separate bill; it was proposed in the first couple of days for bills to drop this session, my memory is a little fuzzy right now and busy at work so can't research who dropped it or the number.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Mudinyeri on January 31, 2013, 01:27:18 PM: Quote from: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 12:21:18 PM
As Phantom said it is a separate bill; it was proposed in the first couple of days for bills to drop this session, my memory is a little fuzzy right now and busy at work so can't research who dropped it or the number.

Hmmm ... I remember seeing it in Obama's 23 directives, but I can't find a legislative bill. My Google-fu must be weak today.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 01:38:09 PM: For some reason they are being very slow at getting bills posted to Thomas, the Fienstien bill that we have copies of has not been posted yet either. So it may not be your Goggle Fu acting up, it may be big brother is trying to keep you in the dark.... Now to return this borrowed tinfoil hat.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: unfy on January 31, 2013, 05:50:44 PM: Quote from: AAllen on January 31, 2013, 01:38:09 PM
For some reason they are being very slow at getting bills posted to Thomas, the Fienstien bill that we have copies of has not been posted yet either. So it may not be your Goggle Fu acting up, it may be big brother is trying to keep you in the dark.... Now to return this borrowed tinfoil hat.

How many multi-thousand page bills has Congress voted on after only receiving the "final draft" an hour prior ?

I hate them.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Phantom on January 31, 2013, 06:03:03 PM: they don't want us to see the full text in time to Blitz our lawmakers asking them to block it.
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: unfy on January 31, 2013, 06:29:39 PM: I have a question.

How many crimes have been committed by a weapon purchased at a gun show ?

Near zero probably ?
Title: Re: Senate Judicairy Committee, Question about gun show loopholes.
Post by: Phantom on January 31, 2013, 06:58:29 PM: Unfy haven't you heard ...there are always mass killings at the Gun shows :o
those gun people are Evil and psychotic
I know as i heard it on MSNBC and ABC and you know they "can not lie" ...
I heard that on the internet. :P

Speaking of psychotic, AAllen I need My Tin Foil hat Back now ...
I hope you didn't crinkle it this time those things are hard to make and get just right. ::)

Remember your not Psychotic...If they are out to get you!