NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Information Arsenal => Topic started by: SemperFiGuy on March 15, 2013, 08:44:02 AM
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Right Here:
http://www.naturalnews.com/039458_US_government_arms_race_stockpiling_ammunition.html#ixzz2Na1VlS6b (http://www.naturalnews.com/039458_US_government_arms_race_stockpiling_ammunition.html#ixzz2Na1VlS6b)
sfg
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It will give them some way of filling the millions of 3 person coffins Fema has stockpiled all around the country.
That child game of connect the dots, makes todays headlines rather ominous.
(http://medias.creativeandlive.com/medias/hds/000/001/073/hd/kenyonb_gun.jpg)
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Should I adjust my tin foil hat, again?
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I still have trouble believing "high-minded elitist Liberals" could openly suppress this country. You could overwhelm most of them with a fart in a cramped elevator. >:D
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you guys...tin foil hat adjustment..etc :laugh:
I know next gun show I attend I`ll be looking for a copy of the jihadis guide to IED`s ...lol
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I still have trouble believing "high-minded elitist Liberals" could openly suppress this country. You could overwhelm most of them with a fart in a cramped elevator. >:D
That's why these kooky theories are so laughable, whether the party in power is liberal or conservative. Whether it's the "FEMA death camps" theory, the "massive stockpiles of ammo" theories that are based on mis-reading of RFPs, a general misunderstanding of the truly massive scope of securing the border (e.g. the Border Patrol is the largest law enforcement agency in the US for a reason: we have a BIG border on the edge of a hell-hole country), or oldies like the "moon landing hoax" theory; the point that people don't get unless they've actually worked inside the beltway is ... there's NO WAY the government could actually keep a major secret on something so nefarious.
That's not a slam on any administration. The system is **supposed** to be like that! There are times when officials of any branch overstep their bounds, and that's when "leaks" can and do happen. Watergate is the big example, but there are lots of smaller leaks that have been success stories. Some agencies even have dedicated "Dissent" channels communications by which anyone, without any supervisory approval, and send a "dissent" message directly to the top of the organizational chart.
And then there's the media which - as annoying as they can be - are actually an effective "fourth" branch of government providing checks-and-balances of their own. Regardless of their political bent, it's every journalist's dream to be the next Bob Woodward and uncover a corrupt administration. And that's a good thing.
Another factor is that the federal law enforcement officers, who feature as villains in the kooky theories, are in reality some of the most patriotic and staunchly conservative folks you'll find out there. That's usually because they're pulled out of military ranks. There's a veteran's preference applied to federal hiring which makes it very difficult for non-vets to get in. The higher the disability incurred in combat, the higher the preference. Again, that's a good thing. As much as we love to moan about organizations like TSA, I've seen a lot of TSA guys with pretty awful burns and other obvious injuries, and it's not much of a stretch to assume those were incurred in combat. (By comparison, I've found the private sector can often be disappointingly / disgustingly reluctant to hire veterans, especially if they suspect PTSD.)
If people want to watch something fictional that is a better representation of Washington ills than the kook sites depict, I **HIGHLY** suggest the Netflix-only miniseries "House of Cards". For something produced exclusively by/for Netflix, it's surprisingly good television. Sure, it's a lot of fantastical caricature with all the drama that they've packed into it of drugs, murder, sex, etc. But, in terms of depicting the political horse-trading and power plays, it at least gives the viewer a little better taste of how things can work inside the beltway.
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That's why these kooky theories are so laughable, whether the party in power is liberal or conservative. Whether it's the "FEMA death camps" theory, the "massive stockpiles of ammo" theories that are based on mis-reading of RFPs, a general misunderstanding of the truly massive scope of securing the border (e.g. the Border Patrol is the largest law enforcement agency in the US for a reason: we have a BIG border on the edge of a hell-hole country), or oldies like the "moon landing hoax" theory; the point that people don't get unless they've actually worked inside the beltway is ... there's NO WAY the government could actually keep a major secret on something so nefarious.
That's not a slam on any administration. The system is **supposed** to be like that! There are times when officials of any branch overstep their bounds, and that's when "leaks" can and do happen. Watergate is the big example, but there are lots of smaller leaks that have been success stories. Some agencies even have dedicated "Dissent" channels communications by which anyone, without any supervisory approval, and send a "dissent" message directly to the top of the organizational chart.
And then there's the media which - as annoying as they can be - are actually an effective "fourth" branch of government providing checks-and-balances of their own. Regardless of their political bent, it's every journalist's dream to be the next Bob Woodward and uncover a corrupt administration. And that's a good thing.
Another factor is that the federal law enforcement officers, who feature as villains in the kooky theories, are in reality some of the most patriotic and staunchly conservative folks you'll find out there. That's usually because they're pulled out of military ranks. There's a veteran's preference applied to federal hiring which makes it very difficult for non-vets to get in. The higher the disability incurred in combat, the higher the preference. Again, that's a good thing. As much as we love to moan about organizations like TSA, I've seen a lot of TSA guys with pretty awful burns and other obvious injuries, and it's not much of a stretch to assume those were incurred in combat. (By comparison, I've found the private sector can often be disappointingly / disgustingly reluctant to hire veterans, especially if they suspect PTSD.)
If people want to watch something fictional that is a better representation of Washington ills than the kook sites depict, I **HIGHLY** suggest the Netflix-only miniseries "House of Cards". For something produced exclusively by/for Netflix, it's surprisingly good television. Sure, it's a lot of fantastical caricature with all the drama that they've packed into it of drugs, murder, sex, etc. But, in terms of depicting the political horse-trading and power plays, it at least gives the viewer a little better taste of how things can work inside the beltway.
I stated that I don't believe they COULD successfully suppress the country, however I have yet to be convinced that they are not so far out of touch that they THINK they could. John Brown thought the raid on Harper's Ferry would start a slave insurrection. Charles Manson thought the Tate/Labianca murders would start a racial war. Bin laden thought the 9/11 attacks would get the U.S. to pull out of the mideast. In fact they were all wrong but nonetheless the attempts were made.
As for the press being the "fourth branch" of govt., nothing could be scarier to anyone other than Herr Goebbels. The press today seems inclined to go along with what the govt. deems worthy of note. Where are the Pulitzer seekers digging into Fast & Furious? Surely one country illegally shipping guns into another would be worth an in depth look? Wars have been declared over such actions in the past. The Bengazi attack is still being brushed aside by most media, a dead ambassador and 3 other americans, more weapons trafficking, and a White House sponsored snow job (readily promoted by media), are apparently not enough to hold interest. Yet ironically, the media was quick to applaud the arrest and detention of an Egyptian immigrant for exercising his newly aquired 1st amend. right, the same right which allows them to function.
True, there are fringe elements putting out rumors, but sometimes rumors lead to facts. Trusting the mainstream media to search for those facts is about as effective as the "ghost shirts" worn by the Sioux. By the time you figure out it doesn't work, it's too damn late.
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RedDot, you are much more tactful than I. Thank you for that rebuttal. My rough draft was rather....combative. I like yours better.
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Standing in the cold at 72nd & Dodge for 2 hours does wonders for clearing the mind ;D
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Standing in the cold at 72nd & Dodge for 2 hours does wonders for clearing the mind
how did it Go out there .....I wasn't feeling well enough to be there like i'd planed
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It seems our "transparent" administration is keeping a number of events and agendas rather opaque.
Recent Congressman questioning regarding DHS requisition of 1.6 billion rounds of ammuniton, 7000 select fire rifles, 2700 armored vehicles and body armor has resulted in no response. It is concerning that we have a number of military branches that can provide security but are allowing another entity to build power without having to answer to purpose.
I recently sent email asking for the DHS purchase necessities to Administration, Senate, and Reps of NE. I am certain this will not get an answer, but at least press some concerns at the lack of answers.
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Recent Congressman questioning regarding DHS requisition of 1.6 billion rounds of ammuniton, 7000 select fire rifles, 2700 armored vehicles and body armor has resulted in no response. It is concerning that we have a number of military branches that can provide security but are allowing another entity to build power without having to answer to purpose.
I recently sent email asking for the DHS purchase necessities to Administration, Senate, and Reps of NE. I am certain this will not get an answer, but at least press some concerns at the lack of answers.
No ......but it did get you listed on the NO Fly and several other lists :P You bad boy! you....
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how did it Go out there .....I wasn't feeling well enough to be there like i'd planed
50-60 people showed up and stuck it out. Lots of favorable responses from traffic. Only saw/heard 2 hecklers, one screaming "Obama is God" which was puzzling as I would have assumed God in his omnipotence could manage a fiscal budget... ??? go figure. The other was someone wearing a scarf over their face pantomiming a drive by with his "finger gun". Considering the high probability of CHP holders in the crowd I find the lack of intelligence from the opposition to be ...heartening. :kiss:
First time I ever went to such an event and I enjoyed it, felt safe enough to have my 12yr old daughter there, and am feeling pretty good for myself after being a part of it. ;D
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I think we're on the same page with what you've written there, RedDot. I agree too that the issue is whether they "could" or "could not". I'm not pretending that nobody ever would try. Again to use the Nixon example, he tried some shenanigans -- and got caught.
That's why I say that the media and the first amendment play an important role, not forming a fourth branch in the Nazi sense that they are controlled by the administration, but rather that they are independent and free to also pitch in as part of the system of checks-and-balances. I've lived much of my life posted overseas, including some pretty nasty places where the media truly were nothing more than a front for the dictator who had been running the country for a couple decades. I've had very good friends dragged out of their houses at night by the "president's" goon squad and detained for a few weeks, just for writing the wrong story. One friend finally got gunned down one night. Another finally gave up the good fight and sought (and received) asylum in the US after his newspaper's building was torched for the second time. By comparison, we've got a heck of a great media despite their (generally) liberal tendencies and I'm as passionate about the first amendment as I am about the second.
I suppose conspiracy theories have their place. As Nebraskans especially, we should all have the phrase “The salvation of the state is watchfulness in the citizen.” memorized from elementary school. But... when the penchant for theories isn't balanced with discernment, let alone credible firsthand experience or knowledge, it quickly starts to become counterproductive, and detracts us from real threats.
There are real threats that are being combated every day along our thousands of miles of land borders and coasts. The prior, Bush administration set up a big, expensive way to deal with those threats. Whether it is worth it is a valid conversation. Should we stop inspecting EVERY single shipping container that enters the US for nukes or radiological devices? That would be good discussion. Does Customs and Border Protection have UAVs and AWACS planes? You bet, and they're on display every year at the Joint Forces Open House at Andrews AFB for you to see. Shall we defund them and stop using them to watch the borders? That would be a good discussion too. Do they have Lenco Bearcat armored vehicles. Yep... been there, done that. Awesome ride. Shall we take them away and make our guys drive unarmored pickups into cartel hostilities? We can discuss that too. My point is... at least those would all be discussions about real things that are really happening.
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My question is this...
If all this activity can so easily be explained away, why does the administration not respond to inquiries from Congressman?
Especially when I believe the majority of Americans are wanting increased border security, and the answers would bolster that perception
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My question is this...
If all this activity can so easily be explained away, why does the administration not respond to inquiries from Congressman?
Very interesting question. The short answer is: I really don’t know why this isn’t handled better.
If you look at social media forums, it’s easy to see that the homeland security components have major PR problems. For every positive “thanks for keeping us safe” message on Facebook, etc., there are five ranting about the latest conspiracy theory.
Obviously more transparency would help. But I imagine -- in a world where a lot of the most worrisome threats are highly classified -- the activities and assets needed to counter those threats are commensurately classified.
Changing public perception is expensive. Some agencies do it way better than others. The DOD must have spent a fortune over the years running “Army of One” and “The Few, the Proud…” commercials. NASA had some pretty effective programs to do outreach to teachers, who are in a position to then take cool science curricula back to the classroom and, in the process, get future generations psyched up about space exploration. DHS’s own “Coast Guard Alaska” on the Weather Channel is quite good. But, like I said, PR campaigns are spendy. Using tax dollars to do PR to explain why an agency needs more tax dollars to buy more equipment or hire more people should be viewed quite skeptically.
As you suggest, though, the logical answer would just be to ANSWER the questions. Explain why FEMA, which is responsible for dealing with large scale disasters, needs coffins. (OK, that’s kind of a “duh” issue, but obviously some people need it spelled out, and what harm could come of explaining disaster preparations?) Take the media on a tour of the federal law enforcement training centers. Take them on ride-alongs on the southern border. Maybe this is being offered and the media doesn’t care because they sell more commercials doing TV interviews with some idiot pop star. Or maybe it’s not being done for reasons I cannot guess and am not privy to. But if there is reluctance to answer, a fair assessment would be that the underlying reasons are highly “political” rather than apocalyptic.
Ultimately, combating conspiracy theorists may just be swimming upstream. Right now the “FEMA death camps” are en vogue. Rewind to a few years ago and people on the other side of the political spectrum were claiming that President Bush used his hurricane-generating equipment to wipe out New Orleans.
My beef with the conspiracy theories is that they detract us from the real political fight. Someone said here recently that this president wants to make us a communist nation. That’s not quite right: he wants to make us a socialist one. He wants to make us like Europe. Hey, Europe’s an awesome place. I have lived there, and I love visiting there. But when I come back to the US, I don’t want it to be like Europe here. The US is better, as evidenced by all the Europeans trying to immigrate here because they have lost their liberties. We don’t need to “change.”
Wow, even as I wrote that last paragraph, it occurred to me THAT might be the answer to your question. If your political opponents are barking up the wrong, conspiracy theory tree, why should you stop them? Let them expend their time and resources in fruitless pursuits.
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The biggest problem with the denial is that they purchased JHP ammo for "target practice". If they were buying in bulk to "save money", and for "training" purposes, they'd purchase the cheaper ball ammo, not the more expensive hollow point ammo.
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Why do conspiracy theories get started? For the most obvious of reasons,.. people feel they are being lied to. I almost get the sense Feral, you are going to lengths to cover for the fact that this Admin. has repeatedly lied to the public.
The conspiracies you look down on start out with one little nobody who sees something that makes him stop and think "Why is this happening? What is this for?". In answer to his question he gets a nonsense answer or none at all, "nothing to see here". Left to his own devices he may indeed come up with the wrong conclusion, but it does not disprove the fact that he did indeed see "something".
In 1941 there were several "sightings" and indications which were dismissed right up to the time the first wave crossed over Pearl Harbor. Leading up to the 9/11 attacks (both of them it seems) there were also several indictions of "something" building up.
It seems foolish to just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" as all facts start as theories and "sightings" and "somethings" have a bad way of adding up to hit us right in the mouth.
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Why do conspiracy theories get started? For the most obvious of reasons,.. people feel they are being lied to. I almost get the sense Feral, you are going to lengths to cover for the fact that this Admin. has repeatedly lied to the public.
The conspiracies you look down on start out with one little nobody who sees something that makes him stop and think "Why is this happening? What is this for?". In answer to his question he gets a nonsense answer or none at all, "nothing to see here". Left to his own devices he may indeed come up with the wrong conclusion, but it does not disprove the fact that he did indeed see "something".
In 1941 there were several "sightings" and indications which were dismissed right up to the time the first wave crossed over Pearl Harbor. Leading up to the 9/11 attacks (both of them it seems) there were also several indictions of "something" building up.
It seems foolish to just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" as all facts start as theories and "sightings" and "somethings" have a bad way of adding up to hit us right in the mouth.
This. I'm perfectly fine with conspiracy theories. I like to know that folks are out game planning and watching for potential problems. People who knock conspiracy theories never have any way to disprove them.
As for the government... I'll never trust it, nor assume that it isn't trying to utilize its current power to gain more power.
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The biggest problem with the denial is that they purchased JHP ammo for "target practice". If they were buying in bulk to "save money", and for "training" purposes, they'd purchase the cheaper ball ammo, not the more expensive hollow point ammo.
I also use various bullets in factory and reload ammo. Largely to test the function of various bullet styles in my handguns and reliability. It is not unreasonable to practice with JHP if you intend to use that style bullet. If your firearm chokes feeding hollow points, you need to resolve the issue or get a different firearm. I have noticed difference in various weight and style of bullet and charge to target hit (who hasn't that have tried different styles?). It could well be that someone is savy enough to realize that they should practice with what they will use on a regular basis.
Just my opinion/explanation. However, the sheer volume of ammunition is alarming. Maybe a "spend it" budget effort? They have funds allocated and need to spend it or loose it? Concern over ammo availability? A 'good ol' boy' purchase? A requisition error? Could be dozens of reasons, could be embarrasing to explain.
In any case, with issues of government spending and existing resources (military, et al) it seems unnecessary to build/fund another army. Especially when Obama suggested building some entity with military capacity in some of his speeches. I really dislike the idea that a president can evoke his own militia.
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This. I'm perfectly fine with conspiracy theories. I like to know that folks are out game planning and watching for potential problems. People who knock conspiracy theories never have any way to disprove them.
As for the government... I'll never trust it, nor assume that it isn't trying to utilize its current power to gain more power.
That's sig line material, right there... sad but true. :(
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Why do conspiracy theories get started? For the most obvious of reasons,.. people feel they are being lied to. I almost get the sense Feral, you are going to lengths to cover for the fact that this Admin. has repeatedly lied to the public.
The conspiracies you look down on start out with one little nobody who sees something that makes him stop and think "Why is this happening? What is this for?". In answer to his question he gets a nonsense answer or none at all, "nothing to see here". Left to his own devices he may indeed come up with the wrong conclusion, but it does not disprove the fact that he did indeed see "something".
In 1941 there were several "sightings" and indications which were dismissed right up to the time the first wave crossed over Pearl Harbor. Leading up to the 9/11 attacks (both of them it seems) there were also several indictions of "something" building up.
It seems foolish to just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" as all facts start as theories and "sightings" and "somethings" have a bad way of adding up to hit us right in the mouth.
First of all, have a blessed Palm Sunday!
Again, I can’t really disagree, fundamentally, with a lot of that. The salvation of the state IS indeed watchfulness in the citizen, as Nebraska’s favorite philosopher said. But I haven’t seen anything raised here in this forum, or others that I follow, that really comprises the “discovery” of some groundbreaking new facts, or constitutes astute analysis. All I see around the web is people re-broadcasting the blogs of a few computer commandos who keep shouting “WOLF!” every time they see what appears to me like a golden retriever. A healthy distrust of the government (or any other entity) is indeed important, but discernment and analytical skills are as important as political zeal if one is to stand watch effectively.
The problem with the theories is that they are so fantastical that they’re – almost by definition – impossible to refute. Can I prove that there isn’t a secret government machine that steers hurricanes into New Orleans? No, I can’t. All I can do is rely on what I’ve experienced and seen myself over the years.
I personally agree that there has been BS emanating out of this admin. and I despise the fact that the Democratic party apparently think they are the intelligentsia who can “fix” America by more nanny-state laws. But that goes back to my point that the real battle here is political, and against a socialist agenda.
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still have trouble believing "high-minded elitist Liberals" could openly suppress this country. You could overwhelm most of them with a fart in a cramped elevator
While I am not afraid them, per se, in the same sense I would not have been physically afraid of Adolph Schickelgruber and his cronies, these people have command of the United States Military, and already having stated, in public, a desire to create a "Civilian National Security Force, that is just as large, just as well equipped, and just as well funded as the United States Military"", IS ACTUALLY BEGINNING TO BUY EQUIPMENT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
Is Obama Looking to Create a Civilian National Security Force? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-0N-1AybS0#ws)
They are building something ..... and creating conditions for a financial catastrophe that will cause Joe Sixpack and Sally Soccermom to cry out for a Savior ...... if you don't see that, your eyes are not open.
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if you don't see that, your eyes are not open.
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
IF the changes and/or abuses of
the RICCO Act,
the PATRIOT Act (and its National Security Letters),
the drones,
the ATF false flag operation "Fast and Furious" (an attempt to blame TX gun stores for MX gang guns),
the Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness given to the President to control EVERYTHING in the country during an "emergency" of any kind, declared by the President,
the 2012 NDAA’s Sec. 1021 (Feinstein-Lee Amendment wouldn't you know!) which allows the military to detain United States citizens indefinitely without charge or trial for mere suspicions of ties to terrorism. There was a clause in the bill which forbid what 1021 allows, but Obama asked that it be removed and then claimed in his signing statement, which has NO force of law, that he wouldn't use it. Right.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness)
the Cobra gunships flying low over Interstate highways firing blank .50 cal rounds,
US Army on patrol in several towns and villages around the country, "training", even though the use of our military inside the country is illegal in the context it is being used,
TSA VIPR teams spreading out from airports to all around the country, employing no warrant searches without cause,
the "Constitution Free Zone",
the continued and massive printing of paper money with no regard to future consequences of hyper inflation,
giving Billions to Islamic Extremist nations while cutting back on wounded veterans medical assistant,
building over 600 FEMA "detention and relocation" centers around the country. For whom? When?
buying well over a BILLION rounds of 9mm and .40 cal HOLLOW POINT ammo, which is not used in international warfare by mutual agreement, but its OK to use on US citizens? Why are we the enemy?
One or two, even three or four of these events, wouldn't be an alarm to me. BUT, there are too many "coincidences" to ignore without being deliberately blind.
Concerning the ammo purchases. The DHS claimed that the size of the order was to minimize costs. But, if that is true then why didn't they purchase ball ammo, which is cheaper than hollow point? And why so much ... enough to sustain a war for 15 years or more? All of it for "target practice". With hollow points?
What the politicians who have set up or allowed this mess to happen didn't figure on was that their actions would so alarm such a HUGE part of the population that the people would rush out to buy as many guns and as much ammo as they could in preparation for what the political upheaval they believe is coming. Not only people who use guns regularly for sport, hunting or defense, but people who have never laid a hand on a weapon before and at least for many years. I believe that this pressure will continue until factories ramp up their production, the culmination of calamities occurs, or the events the people fear fail to be realized and they flood the market with their purchases. Around the fall of 2014 will be a good test point. If shortages continue then it will be obvious to me that the government is behind them and is interfering with the laws of supply and demand.
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Easy there Grey..I mean all those in one post....I gotta sleep tonight...lol
Interesting, I never heard of the `steering the hurricane` conspiracy
I believe though that Fast and Furious, was all part of the plan to `brainwash` the American public..remember all the media attention about drug cartel/ violence in Mexico, fueled by firearms smuggled across the border...and then it stopped suddenly?
Watch this a few times and tell if it don`t P you O like it does me.
Holder Says People Need to be Brainwashed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyqBxD-3xw#)
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Preparedness is your best defence am I right, everyone should stock pile some kind of supply. Been seeing black helicopters(Miami has Google it)urban training,FEMA camps,thousands of armored vehicles ordered,DHS ammo stockpile,our military is being gutted out our marines have to conserve on ammo and fuel that's just wrong. What's DHS need any ammo for there not doing anything to secure our border,in fact itswide open wwhat's that tell you.
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...not doing anything to secure our border,in fact its wide open ...
Here's one I took of a particularly "wide open" portion. Not a bit of fence in sight.... dang, need to get on that ASAP.
US is on the right. Mexico is on the left. In between.... hollow points are legal! Hague convention doesn't apply. :P
I'll have to have you guys over for a slideshow sometime. You can wear your tinfoil hats and the missus can make her lemon chess pie. It's scrumptious!
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the Cobra gunships flying low over Interstate highways firing blank .50 cal rounds,
This one makes me laugh for reasons unrelated to the rest of this thread. ... Rather, it brought back memories and stories (first-hand, and related to me over the years) of what can happen when you turn 20-something men (often VERY YOUNG-20-something men) loose with multi-million dollar equipment. ;D One, in particular, involved an AC-130 gunship, some young men, some live ammo, and a moose that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Here's one I took of a particularly "wide open" portion. Not a bit of fence in sight..
I'll see your pic and raise you this video:
http://youtu.be/AfVENwfeGHw (http://youtu.be/AfVENwfeGHw)
and this, with excuses:
http://youtu.be/piJa-XIoCDM (http://youtu.be/piJa-XIoCDM)
and their bullets, and guns are illegal in Mexico! Is this the "war on drugs"?
http://youtu.be/nX2gtblTeqI (http://youtu.be/nX2gtblTeqI)
Looking forward to the "Chess cake" :)
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And some illegals are NOT Mexicans looking for a better life!
Islamic Illegals Crossing the U.S. Borders Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6wcVPtJvA#)
Of course, our DHS ignores this.
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One, in particular, involved an AC-130 gunship, some young men, some live ammo, and a moose that was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
That sounds like a confession, feralcatkillr! Did you hit it? ROF,LLLLLLLL
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Keep it civil fellas
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Keep it civil fellas
We were. Did you notice his funny face, or my "ROF,LLLL"?
I just wanted to know if he hit the moose! I also wonder what the range was and how many rounds it took! :)
BTW, I never become disagreeable with those who disagree with me. You can check several years of my posts on the KubuntuForums.net and you won't find a single one which sinks to ad homenim attacks. How could we exchange views if that attitude were adopted? However, as you have probably observed, I will argue my position as strongly as I can.
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It was just a reminder...carry on
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It was just a reminder...carry on
Aye, aye Captain!
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We were.
Agree! All in good fun.
More than fun, really... GG's expresses his patriotism by posting what he thinks may a political "vulnerability". I express mine by highlighting anything that might be incorrect or fantastical, and that detracts from political or external terror threats I believe to be more likely.
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I express mine by highlighting anything that might be incorrect or fantastical,
And both views are important. No one is right 100% of the time and no one is wrong 100% of the time.
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I've seen reasonable sounding explanations, including from the NRA, but it still doesn't look good. I've never been one to take much interest in conspiracy theories, but in this case there might be fire under the smoke. I remember when I thought the Bilderberger Group was a wild-eyed conspiracy theory that couldn't possibly be real, but now it's commonly known to be established fact. So some conspiracy theories are less far-fetched than others; time will tell where these fit on the scale.
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Recent Congressman questioning regarding DHS requisition of 1.6 billion rounds of ammuniton, 7000 select fire rifles, 2700 armored vehicles and body armor has resulted in no response. It is concerning that we have a number of military branches that can provide security but are allowing another entity to build power without having to answer to purpose.
Here is a response from Adrian Smith: Basically related the concerns above, disappointed that the answer was simply a spending concern. Still question the 2700 armored vehicles, guns and ammo aside (not really aside, just for this instance).
March 28, 2013
Dear Mr. XXXXXX:
Thank you for contacting me regarding the procurement of ammunition by the United States Social Security Administration (SSA), the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. I appreciate you taking the time to share your views on this matter.
As you may know, federal agencies are tasked with a wide range of responsibilities, including internal security and the enforcement of law. At the SSA, for example, the Office of the Inspector General employs agents charged with investigating fraud, executing search warrants, and making arrests. These investigators have full law enforcement authority and are required to complete quarterly firearms qualifications.
Some of my constituents have expressed concerns about the recent solicitation for ammunition by the NOAA. Due to a clerical error, this solicitation inadvertently was attributed to NOAA's National Weather Service; however, it originated from the NOAA Office of Law Enforcement.
As a member of the Committee on Ways and Means, the responsible use of taxpayer dollars is an issue I take very seriously, and I will work with my colleagues to ensure appropriate oversight is given to protect taxpayers from wasteful spending. Rest assured I will continue to monitor these agencies and keep you apprised of future developments.
Again, thank you for contacting me; please do so in the future if I may be of assistance.
Sincerely, Adrian Smith
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NOAA Office of Law Enforcement
When did the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration need an armed enforcement contingent? Along the coasts what's the coast guard for. Within the states what's the local police and highway patrols for?
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NOAA Office of Law Enforcement
GreyGeek... Obviously, they are responsible for enforcing the "Laws Of Nature" :P
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When did the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration need an armed enforcement contingent? Along the coasts what's the coast guard for. Within the states what's the local police and highway patrols for?
From the NOAA website:
"From tackling seafood fraud nationally to helping crack down on illegal fishing internationally, we're here to make sure that those who obey the rules reap the benefits of fair competition and an even playing field in the market. We protect marine resources and their habitat and help safeguard the health of seafood consumers and the livelihoods of coastal communities."
It is my opinion that these various entities want to do their own enforcement since they can not depend on anyone else to do it for them. That could also involve dealing with corrupt law enforcement, leaks or identity protection of agents.
As they prepare S. 649 there is already a part allowing the attourney general to create a campus security of some form for schools and work with other departments to share or create that extra bureaucracy. More government, more money spent, more laws....etc, etc, etc.
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When did the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration need an armed enforcement contingent? Along the coasts what's the coast guard for. Within the states what's the local police and highway patrols for?
Have to admit, had no idea they had an enforcement wing: http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/index.html (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/index.html)
Since the Coast Guard's territory is "all navigable waterways", it would seem like there could be efficiencies gained by just letting the CG perform these functions. State and local police may not be the solution for federal or inter-state issues, but CBP would perform anything related to customs issues.
Sounds like a good place to find budget cuts, to me.
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A chunk of S. 649 in it's current state: Authority to establish and operate....although there is mention of mutual aid...looks like more spending and more government to me.
‘SEC. 509. NATIONAL CENTER FOR CAMPUS PUBLIC SAFETY.
‘(a) Definition of Institution of Higher Education- In this section, the term ‘institution of higher education’ has the meaning given the term in section 101 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001).
‘(b) Authority To Establish and Operate Center- The Attorney General may establish and operate a National Center for Campus Public Safety (referred to in this section as the ‘Center’).
‘(c) Functions of the Center- The Center shall--
‘(1) provide quality education and training for public safety personnel of institutions of higher education and their collaborative partners, including campus mental health agencies;
‘(2) foster quality research to strengthen the safety and security of institutions of higher education;
‘(3) serve as a clearinghouse for the identification and dissemination of information, policies, protocols, procedures, and best practices relevant to campus public safety, including off-campus housing safety, the prevention of violence against persons and property, and emergency response and evacuation procedures;
‘(4) coordinate with the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of Education, State, local and tribal governments and law enforcement agencies, private and nonprofit organizations and associations, and other stakeholders, to develop protocols and best practices to prevent, protect against and respond to dangerous and violent situations involving an immediate threat to the safety of the campus community;
‘(5) promote the development and dissemination of effective behavioral threat assessment and management models to prevent campus violence;
‘(6) identify campus safety information (including ways to increase off-campus housing safety) and identify resources available from the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Education, State, local, and tribal governments and law enforcement agencies, and private and nonprofit organizations and associations;
‘(7) promote cooperation, collaboration, and consistency in prevention, response, and problem-solving methods among public safety and emergency management personnel of institutions of higher education and their campus- and non-campus-based collaborative partners, including law enforcement, emergency management, mental health services, and other relevant agencies;
‘(8) disseminate standardized formats and models for mutual aid agreements and memoranda of understanding between campus security agencies and other public safety organizations and mental health agencies; and
‘(9) report annually to Congress on activities performed by the Center during the previous 12 months.
‘(d) Coordination With Available Resources- In establishing the Center, the Attorney General shall--
‘(1) coordinate with the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of Education, and appropriate State or territory officials;
‘(2) ensure coordination with campus public safety resources within the Department of Homeland Security, including within the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and the Department of Education; and
‘(3) coordinate within the Department of Justice and existing grant programs to ensure against duplication with the program authorized by this section.
‘(e) Reporting and Accountability- At the end of each fiscal year, the Attorney General shall--
‘(1) issue a report that assesses the impacts, outcomes and effectiveness of the grants distributed to carry out this section;
‘(2) in compiling such report, assess instances of duplicative activity, if any, performed through grants distributed to carry out this section and other grant programs maintained by the Department of Justice, the Department of Education, and the Department of Homeland Security; and
‘(3) make such report available on the Department of Justice website and submit such report to the Senate and House Judiciary Committees and the Senate and House Appropriations Committees.’.
(c) Rule of Construction- Nothing in this section shall preclude public elementary and secondary schools or their larger governing agencies from receiving the informational and training benefits of the National Center for Campus Public Safety authorized under section 509 of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, as added by this title.
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THere are just TOO MANY agencies with armed policing capabilities. Just a thought ... IF you wanted to create a "civilian security defense force" how would you do it? One agency at a time, eventually giving them access to loads of rifles and bullets, 2,700 armored vehicles, etc...? Then some time in the future, "for efficiency sake" combine them into a single agency with authority in every state to which local and state police have to submit?
When will NOAA begin to get its own aircraft, boats and cutters? http://www.uscg.mil/datasheet/ (http://www.uscg.mil/datasheet/)
The redundancy is unnecessary and expensive, and creates too many law officers with "I'm above the Constitution" attitudes.
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THere are just TOO MANY agencies with armed policing capabilities. Just a thought ... IF you wanted to create a "civilian security defense force" how would you do it? One agency at a time...
You're still very "close" to the point, but missing it slightly, GreyGeek. The real enemy is simply a FISCAL one. You go one step too far, beyond the real issue, when you get into the civilian defense force stuff.
Agencies will always get into "turf wars" to try and wrestle over who has jurisdiction over a certain area of enforcement. It's all about securing budget and expanding the scope of mission. In a bizarre Darwinian sense it's actually a healthy phenomenon within the Executive Branch of government, but only if the Legislative Branch does their job and takes the hatchet to the budget to cull out the least effective / efficient parts whenever possible.
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A chunk of S. 649 in it's current state: ....
I read this all and honestly can't quite figure out the relevance to the broader thread. Sorry. Maybe my Friday afternoon cocktail is affecting my judgement. (That's entirely possible!)
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I am of the opinion that the whole reason that True Progressives (as opposed their "useful idiots", who just want to "do some good") are growing the .gov in every manner possible IS to make the system so bloated and expensive that it collapses under it's own weight- then they can remake it/ transform it into a system they like better.
No intelligent person could come to any conclusion in which continuing on the presesent path is sustainable, yet they want to double down on spending? Either they are really stupid, insane, or Evil. Maybe all three.
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I read this all and honestly can't quite figure out the relevance to the broader thread. Sorry. Maybe my Friday afternoon cocktail is affecting my judgement. (That's entirely possible!)
S. 649 is the current gun trafficking bill that is essentially the basis of a gun control bill. It will be where everyone tries to plant an agenda in the near future. Hopefully the Republican filibuster threat will shut down the works.
The part I posted is a single part where it empowers the Attorney General to establish and operate the "Center". Likely to be another entity with it's own police capacity.
The whole thing taps back into the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968. Noticed one section that jacks $30 million to $40 million for each of 10 years. Lots of grants (many more tens of millions) and control powers. Registration (universal background checks) would be another entity. Trafficking would be another. Covered up with school safety (how dare anyone deny school safety).
Gun/magazine bans are just smoke to cover the money and power they are really looking to take.
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Agencies will always get into "turf wars" to try and wrestle over who has jurisdiction over a certain area of enforcement. It's all about securing budget and expanding the scope of mission.
Having worked at a state agency for over a decade I understand turf wars, mission creep and testosterone/progesterone battles. But redundancies are just that, and our government is way to redundant (mission overlap) in way to many areas, and it costs us too much in treasure and liberty. NOAA does NOT need an armed contingent when it could simply get a warrant and/or make a call to the Coast Guard or local police. What usually happens is that they end up calling local law enforcement anyway, and you have half a dozen or more armed individuals pointing firearms at what are usually unarmed and helpless folk ignorant of the particular law they are accused of breaking.
This stuff even happens at the local level, usually forced by unions. We have a 911 ambulance service. We also have a fire department with a strong union. Call 911 here and you always get a race between the ambulance and a fire truck. While the firemen have "some" EMT training and Oxygen equipment, they are NOT equipped to administer IV or drugs, take EKGs, and they do not have a radio link to doctors in the ER. And, the fire truck does not have room on it for a patient on a stretcher. So, we can't reduce the number of firemen nor can we forbid firetrucks from answering 911 calls, but it would save us a ton of money if we could and it wouldn't affect 911 service at all.