NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: depserv on March 25, 2013, 10:57:22 AM
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Over two and a half thousand years ago Sun Tzu told us that all war is based in deception. It follows that the less your enemy knows about you the less likely he is to be successful in his attack on you. So if you want to increase your chances of surviving a criminal assault, keep your weapon hidden until you're ready to use it.
There are times when there is good reason for open carry, but even in those times, I'll still be carrying a hidden pistol. And in those times, I'll keep my unconcealed weapon hidden by keeping myself hidden, to whatever extent it's practical to do so.
There are many ways this advice can be manifested. For example, is it better to stand on your porch in plain view holding the famous Joe Biden double barrel shotgun, where you are an easy target for a hidden sniper, or remain inside where they can't see you? Either way you can find a way to communicate your message; it's just a matter of how smart you want them to see you as being, and how much you want to survive.
Likewise, if you have to approach a group of people you don't know that might be hostile, is it better for your entire group to walk up to them, or for some of the group to stay hidden and watch what happens through rifle scopes?
Open carry certainly has its advantages, but it also has its disadvantages. There is a reason vests designed for concealed carry are often called shoot me first vests.
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Agreed, I prefer that nobody else know when I am armed.
With the exeption of my immedeate family.
Greg58
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I was working in Iowa yesterday at a busy public intersection. Nice day out so didn't think too much about a group of crotch rockets that pulled into the lot. They set up shop and milled around on the street side of the lot. Always try to be aware of my surroundings, so I gave them the once over. Noticed one guy with a mid-size auto right away. Not even trying to conceal. After observing for a bit it presented itself to be more like," look at me I have a gun and you don't " kinda things. Open and concealed is legal. He got the attention he was looking for from a lot of passer byes. Guys like this drive me nuts. If I'm carrying and you know it, I didn't do my job. It is our right, yes. But I don't like to flaunt it to the general public and feel it sends a "In your face" kinda message. Oh well, I live on this side of the river.
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When you're out and about where a lot of people are around notice how easy it can be to move inconspicuously and nonthreateningly behind someone carrying openly; how easy would it be to hit them over the back of the head with something and take their weapon? Or just take it without hitting them first? The best defenses against this sort of thing are situational awareness and being in a group of at least two. And some holsters have features that guard against unauthorized access. But concealed carry is a good defense too, and a very good part of an overall strategy that also uses the other defenses given.
A lot of police get shot with their own guns. I've seen a range of numbers given on this, but even at the low end it says something about open carry when there are people on all sides of you. Civilians have the advantage of being able to walk away from situations police have to go into. But even with that, the danger in giving your enemy intelligence about your weapon is still evident.
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But I don't like to flaunt it to the general public and feel it sends a "In your face" kinda message.
I agree. There are times and places for open carry, but the world we live in now is peaceful enough that it is not one of them. Open carry now together with certain body language can make a person look like a punk. I'd hate to have to defend myself in court after defending myself if witnesses saw me looking like a punk before my defensive shooting.
And as I pointed out in a post above, advertising that you have a gun might get you hit over the back of the head by someone who wants to steal it. Especially if the guy wants your motorcycle too. It's like flashing a big roll of hundred dollar bills around.
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It's like flashing a big roll of hundred dollar bills around.
Exactly! Only idiots do that, and they usually end up getting rolled. It's the thug's "gun store". Advertize it on your hip and you are asking to get blind-sided.
Fifty years ago it was a different story. You knew almost everyone had a pocket pistol out of sight, and many carried openly or had long guns in the back windows of their trucks. Besides, when you could walk into any sporting goods store or almost any hardware store, or Sears, or Montgomery Wards, and buy a weapon without having to show nothing more than the cash needed to buy it, why would anyone steal a gun from someone else, especially since they were almost commodities. Guns which sell for $1,500 - $2,500 today sold for 1/10th that or less just 50 years ago. Otherwise a kid like me making $15/month on a paper route would NOT have been able to afford two M1s Garands, an 1894 Marlin 30-30 lever action, a Mossberg 12 ga shotgun, a 1878 Stevens falling block .22 lever action rifle, a 1780s Royal Armory musket, a Daisy BB air rife and my favorite, a 5mm Sheridan Bluestreak Pneumatic air rifle. Oh, also the powder, primer and Pacifica reloading tool to reload the 30-06 and shotgun shells. (Fortunately, I had free room, board and clothing in my folk's house, until they kicked me out my senior year of HS.)
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my theory is simple...if you can't see it, i must not have it...right?
on a side note, i can usually pick out the people that are carrying concealed in a heartbeat.
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i can usually pick out the people that are carrying concealed in a heartbeat.
Are all of them printing, or often lifting their pants, or pulling down on their shirt or jacket, or is it the bulge or the butt of the gun showing?
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advertising that you have a gun might get you hit over the back of the head by someone who wants to steal it.
I watched a YouTube video (I believe in Michigan) where open carry was allowed but conceals was not availble yet. One individual was notorious for open carry (there were neighbors interviewed in the video, some concerned about the 'man with a gun'). That individual got mugged for his pistol.
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on a side note, i can usually pick out the people that are carrying concealed in a heartbeat.
You can assume that a middle-aged man who doesn't look like a liberal dupe is probably carrying because of the demographics of CCW holders. But unless you actually see a bulge or something it's still an assumption, and even if it is a correct assumption, at least you don't know where he's carrying. That's why I quit wearing my shoot-me-first vests, which I really liked because of all the pockets.
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Flaunted open carry is most always a bad idea.
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HIDDEN...only the peeps know!
(http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz331/sullipics/012-1_zpsa0ceacd0.jpg)
I was in AZ for work ~18 months ago and seen a idiot at the convenience store with what looked like a Desert Eagle hanging 3/4 out of his back pocket...now, I`m really not this kind of guy but the thought of snatching it out of his pocket and delivering a good pistol whipping did occur to me.
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Are all of them printing, or often lifting their pants, or pulling down on their shirt or jacket, or is it the bulge or the butt of the gun showing?
Its usually by dress, but most observable via body language.
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I was in AZ for work ~18 months ago and seen a idiot at the convenience store with what looked like a Desert Eagle hanging 3/4 out of his back pocket...
If I ever carry a Desert Eagle I'll want to use a four wheel cart. Maybe even a small crane and rigging crew. What kind of a nitwit would put one of those in his pocket?
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If I ever carry a Desert Eagle I'll want to use a four wheel cart. Maybe even a small crane and rigging crew. What kind of a nitwit would put one of those in his pocket?
The kind that also was dressed in a way that reminded me of `the bad guy` in the movie, No Country for Old Men. No joking.
Yep, them D.E. are a hefty piece..friend of mine has had one since they first came out...man that seems like a loooong time ago.
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I think they're kind of a neat pistol, but impractical. Why not carry a carbine instead?
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For those who have a hard time finding a way to carry a decent size pistol in the warm months, check out the SmartCarry line, at smartcarry.com. There are quite a few other good options too if you look around.