NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Laws and Legislation => Topic started by: Gary on April 11, 2013, 09:08:35 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/gun-control-bill-clears-first-hurdle-senate-153646819--politics.html (http://news.yahoo.com/gun-control-bill-clears-first-hurdle-senate-153646819--politics.html)
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I am confused...it passed the senate???? though they just voted to bring it to the floor?
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It only passed a cloture vote
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It only passed a cloture vote
Explain to us what that means, and what we can do to end this attack. Thanks.
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I believe that it essentially means they voted whether or not to vote ::) Cloture is a procedure they can use to put a time limit on a debate in order to overcome a filibuster.
And of course the "assault weapon" ban and high capacity magazine ban is tacked back on as an amendment.
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Explain to us what that means, and what we can do to end this attack. Thanks.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cloture (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cloture)
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With over 60 votes, any possible filibuster is dead, correct?
This will help, flood the lawmakers.
http://www.capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/alert/?alertid=62586391 (http://www.capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/alert/?alertid=62586391)
The link above will send an email in your name, urging we not pass this bill.
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And of course the "assault weapon" ban and high capacity magazine ban is tacked back on as an amendment.
Which amendments are those? S.649 itself does not mention assault weapons or magazines. According to the http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s649 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s649) gov site it has only a 19% chance of passing.
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Keep calling and writing our Senators and if you have time call Senators from other states as well and pressure them.
I called over 20 Senators last week and urged them to vote against this crap and to support the filibuster.
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The filibuster hasn't happened yet. This was a vote to bring the bill to the floor and open it for amendment. They will still have to go through the amendment process and then invoke cloture to end debate and move to a vote.
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AFAIK no amendments have been offered yet, although you can be sure Schumer, Feinstein, etc will try to tack on some nasty ones.
I'm not as upset as some about this coming up for a vote. I would prefer it never made it out of committee, but at least this way Senators will have to go on record whether they support or oppose the 2nd.
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I sort of hope they add a mag/assault weapons ban. There is no way that bill gets 60 votes. The current bill probably would.
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OK a brief description of what we know and what we expect.
There was an attempt to keep this from coming up for discussion, filibustering the idea, which failed yesterday. Our Senators both voted to not even bring this up, good for them. Now to what we expect.
S. 649 has very little chance of passing as it is written, and therefore there will be lots of attempts to amend it to get something out of the Senate. What amendments are expected:
Fenstein will bring two, one her assault weapons ban the other the magazine capacity limit, neither of these have enough support to get added to the bill.
Senators Pat Toomey (R) and Joe Manchin (D) with the help of Chuck Schumer will have a "Bipartisan" amendment. This is a bad amendment and unfortunately the exact text has not been seen. Lots of possible problems that have been discussed elsewhere.
Senator Grassley and others will bring an NRA endorsed background check improvement measure as an amendment. Personally not a fan but this does not hurt us, if we could get the rest of the bill stricken and it replaced by this it would be a win. The odds of that happening are low though.
Other amendments are expected as well, mental illness treatment options, National recognition of CCW permits, and many more have been discussed. What this bill may end up looking like in a couple of weeks it is hard to tell, but it does not sound like there is enough votes to go to cloture if the bill goes real hard anti gun, and a couple of pro gun measures must be included. For us fortunately we are being supported by both of our Senators, how will the go when a final bill is produced it's too early to predict.
The good news is that if this is not a very pro gun measure it sounds like it will have little chance of passing in the House, so this may all be an exercise in futility.
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One other note to add on how the procedures work in the Senate. They put together a package of amendments, called the amendment tree, which gets a vote to get added to the bill. So an amendment will be proposed and a vote taken to see if it gets added to the tree as a branch, that amendment can then be amended etc. Then the amendment package or tree gets voted on as a package to get added to or replace the bill in question.
Harry Reid has a history of "pruning" the amendment tree, meaning he limits who or what amendments can be brought up. For the purposes of this bill it sounds like he is going to all any and all possible amendments to be proposed and discussed, this is good for us.
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the Toomy bill/amendment text is finally available :
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html)
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been offered yet,
Those are usually snuck into the printing of the bill after the final vote. Everyone assumes that what is in the bill is what they voted on, but on occasions it is not. That's how the Dems trapped Raegan with their little one liner in a 3,000 page omnibus bill that outlawed laying mines in Nicaragua harbors to stop gun running to communist rebels. It's been used several times since then. The PATRIOT Act was approved before the Congress had the final printing and it was a sneaky disaster. Recently, Pelosi claimed "But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what's in it."
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/ (http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/)
What stuns me more is that people think this condescending attitude is fine. After making a statement like that she should have been impeached.
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Anti-Gun Bill Passes Senate (or did it?) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw0z-8oVIYA#ws)
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The current bill probably would.
Probably so. It is being sold as another "reasonable" step. Unfortunately, those steps lead to last step where the slippery sends us sliding down the rabbit hole of no 2A. And that last step will be oh so reasonable as well. After that, I suspect that we'll see a quick succession of "reasonable" modifications of the Bill Of Rights, and possibly the outright repeal of the 2A. Some on the LMS are even advocating the abandonment of the Constitution, but are never clear on exactly what would replace it. Wink, wink, NWO. Sovereignty and Rule of Law under the Constitution would be abandon.
After all, the WFA & it's parent body, the NWO is all for "World Justice"
http://youtu.be/OfgFvdSPF70 (http://youtu.be/OfgFvdSPF70)
and the next DEM nomoniee for President agrees:
http://youtu.be/voyvRhL_chw (http://youtu.be/voyvRhL_chw)
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I have BIG ISSUES with this part of the Toomey-Manchin amendment:
SEC. 117. CLARIFICATION THAT SUBMISSION OF MENTAL HEALTH RECORDS TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THE HEALTH INSURANCE PORTABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACT.
Bye bye goes due process...
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SEC. 117. CLARIFICATION THAT SUBMISSION OF MENTAL HEALTH RECORDS TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THE HEALTH INSURANCE PORTABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACT.
Especially if they interpret that section to include even people living with or under the same roof as a gun owner.
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Especially if they interpret that section to include even people living with or under the same roof as a gun owner.
Don't you imagine that is exactly the purpose? (Newtown)
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Don't you imagine that is exactly the purpose? (Newtown)
Of course. But it also gives them an excuse to make the States force FFLs to report 4473 info to the NICS or risk losing Federal funding. With that info they have their national gun registration.
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I am reposting this here as an update on S. 649, we have four major competing intrests/groups involved with S. 649.
First is the Anti-gunners version from Chuck Schumer that we all know we oppose but is what has been brought up for discussion.
Next is an NRA bill that they have worked with Senator Grassley et al to write, this is expected to be brought forward as an amendment to S. 649 along with several other competing interests. While this does not appear to be a bas bill from what I'm hearing it does not have a chance, but some features could be added to whatever comes out as a final bill.
Then we have the GOA stance which is any bill is bad, not that I disagree but it seems that horse has left the stable with last weeks vote to move forward on a bill. If this bill goes wrong and infringes upon our rights everyone may come running to their position, but it may be too late.
And now we have the Toomey-Manchin bill/amendment that the CCRKBA has been involved in that seems to have the approval of Schumer (making it a friendly amendment so it has a lot better chance of being adopted than the NRA bill/amendment). Before commenting too much I request that folks read the proposal for themselves, it is available in its entirety here: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.HTML (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html)
Where this is going it is still too early to tell, but it looks like the Toomey-Manchin bill has a chance. From reading the bill it also does not appear that it will harm us and will in fact protect us. I do have questions on the gun show portion on how it would be implemented but it sounds like any private sales at a gunshow (or over the internet, but only at these times) would need to go through an FFL. The internet sales already do (at least if it is over state lines), and it does not appear to be a major hurdle for those selling a gun that they privately own at a gunshow.
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I am reposting this here as an update on S. 649, we have four major competing intrests/groups involved with S. 649.
First is the Anti-gunners version from Chuck Schumer that we all know we oppose but is what has been brought up for discussion.
Next is an NRA bill that they have worked with Senator Grassley et al to write, this is expected to be brought forward as an amendment to S. 649 along with several other competing interests. While this does not appear to be a bas bill from what I'm hearing it does not have a chance, but some features could be added to whatever comes out as a final bill.
Then we have the GOA stance which is any bill is bad, not that I disagree but it seems that horse has left the stable with last weeks vote to move forward on a bill. If this bill goes wrong and infringes upon our rights everyone may come running to their position, but it may be too late.
And now we have the Toomey-Manchin bill/amendment that the CCRKBA has been involved in that seems to have the approval of Schumer (making it a friendly amendment so it has a lot better chance of being adopted than the NRA bill/amendment). Before commenting too much I request that folks read the proposal for themselves, it is available in its entirety here: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html. (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html.)
Where this is going it is still too early to tell, but it looks like the Toomey-Manchin bill has a chance. From reading the bill it also does not appear that it will harm us and will in fact protect us. I do have questions on the gun show portion on how it would be implemented but it sounds like any private sales at a gunshow (or over the internet, but only at these times) would need to go through an FFL. The internet sales already do (at least if it is over state lines), and it does not appear to be a major hurdle for those selling a gun that they privately own at a gunshow.
Link not working: "page not found".
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Remove the period from the end of the URL and it works.