NFOA MEMBERS FORUM
General Categories => Carry Issues => Topic started by: GreyGeek on May 09, 2013, 05:16:00 PM
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I walked into Scheels in Lincoln this morning and looked for a "No Gun" sign anywhere on the east entrance. I didn't see one. Does scheels allow ccw on their premises?
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Not posted, so it's ok.
They would be awfully stupid to ban CCW, since they have a big display of guns meant for exactly that purpose.
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nothing has ever been said to me about it, and most everyone upstairs knows I have a CHP, they've seen it when I bought guns.
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I haven't noticed any signage in Lincoln Scheels but Omaha has a good sign with wording similar to Cabelas about checking in guns but not applying to CHP holders. :D
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I was was there and asked the guy if the dual double stack Blackhawk mag holder would accommodate my usp 45 mags. He asked if I had it on me so we could try them to see if they fit.
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There is/ was a small bi line in the Southpointe brochure and on some sign somewhere that states no guns on premises. BUT -(Story time) I was looking for a holster for a Makarov and an associate told me just to bring the gun in, unloaded and we could test fit a few. I stated that I thought we couldn't bring into the store. (hinting to the 'rule'). He said they would either want them unloaded (in a case) or concealed.
So take that bit of info for what it's worth.
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The only places that I know of posted at SouthPoint are Michaels, Dress Barn, and the shoe place... can never remember if it's famous footwear or Payless shoes. Scheels is fine to conceal.
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The only places that I know of posted at SouthPoint are Michaels, Dress Barn, and the shoe place... can never remember if it's famous footwear or Payless shoes. Scheels is fine to conceal.
The food court building near Trader Joe's is (or at least it was) posted.
Fly
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The food court building near Trader Joe's is (or at least it was) posted.
Fly
Oh yeah... Forgot about that. You're right.
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does any gun business bar concealed carry? that would be pretty odd I would think.
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Since the Southpointe topic came up. please bear in mind, these mall/shopping centers and their subsequent parking lots are really in a gray area being in compliance with being "posted" no CCW. The statute states the posting must be "conspicuous" ... thus the recommended signage provided by the NSP. The little 8X10 sign in the far recesses of the parking lot really really challenges the definition of "conspicuous". In short, MY opinion is they have pretty big hurdle to overcome trying to enforce. That being said, until Sen Amanda McGill approves of a prettier sign (read her history of comments) while still in office and on the Jud Comm, this is how it is going to be.
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does any gun business bar concealed carry? that would be pretty odd I would think.
The Trade N Post in Fremont does http://tradenpostfremont.com/ (http://tradenpostfremont.com/)
So, one would need to secure their wepon in their car before you go in looking for your new Hi Point pistol. ;)
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Rick.... rumor has it they changed their policy so when you are in town next weekend for the Gun Show stop by and take advantage that advertised $169.99 9 mm special on the their website.
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Rick.... rumor has it they changed their policy so when you are in town next weekend for the Gun Show stop by and take advantage that advertised $169.99 9 mm special on the their website.
the signs were still up in February. will check
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Last year I walked into Scheels Omaha with a concealed pistol. Didn't see any signs anywhere etc.
Contradictory -- i've made note of a mini strip mall near cornhusker / harvell and galvin in bellevue. There's signs posted at both parking lot entrances disallowing concealed weapons (a bank, a pizza parlor, a chinese place iirc). No signs on the pizza place... but... still... overall property owner didn't want weapons I guess.
At scheels, I saw nothing of the sort for any parking / mall entrance stuff / etc.
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Rick.... rumor has it they changed their policy so when you are in town next weekend for the Gun Show stop by and take advantage that advertised $169.99 9 mm special on the their website.
what model/make is that gun?
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what model/make is that gun?
Because we care about you...not going to tell you :) Actually I have no idea, but listed ad on their website....
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Gun Show
Gun show in Lincoln next week? What days, and where?
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Gun show in Lincoln next week? What days, and where?
Fremont.
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the signs were still up in February. will check
I went there last weekend and looked at every sign on the doors and windows and did not see any banning concealed carry. There were several about surveillance though. Might have have missed it but I've become quite proficient at picking these non standard signs in strange places.
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Last year I walked into Scheels Omaha with a concealed pistol. Didn't see any signs anywhere etc.
There is a sign on the front door in Omaha. It is on clear mylar type material with white lettering and not real easy to pick out, but workable.
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There is a sign on the front door in Omaha. It is on clear mylar type material with white lettering and not real easy to pick out, but workable.
If I recall correctly, though, that sign doesn't ban concealed carry...
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If I recall correctly, though, that sign doesn't ban concealed carry...
Correct, it specifically states concealed carry is permitted
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In the words of Dr. Cooper: I informed you thusly;
(http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy18/loveroffords2/IMG_20130525_121218_zps5947db27.jpg) (http://s773.photobucket.com/user/loveroffords2/media/IMG_20130525_121218_zps5947db27.jpg.html)
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Does it meet the definition of "conspicuous"? Does not appear that way.....
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Where is that sign? I've never noticed it before.
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Now that someone has located that "conspicuous" sign I suggest a letter writing campaign to ask the management of the South Pointe pavilions if they will assume financial responsibility to make whole any and all who happen to be injured or killed, or their nearest kin, by someone using a weapon of any kind illegally in the pavilions, and post a sign stating so.
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My son also thought it was kinda iffy, me photographing that sign as per line item 14. ;)
(Of course, being my son, he knew exactly why I was reading it and taking a picture without having to ask)
The sign is on a post just behind one of those map kiosk thingys near the entrance of Scheel's, the side facing the courtyard.
On one hand I say we might want to tread lighty, since Scheel's seems to run with their own set of rules.But IF something were to happen, would this one line on this sign be grounds for pressing charges?
Also, what about carrying a newly purchased firearm out of the store? Would/ could it be considered concealed within the box?
Seems to bring about more questions than answers.
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Also, what about carrying a newly purchased firearm out of the store? Would/ could it be considered concealed within the box?
Excellent point! So, if someone gets arrested for carrying a "concealed" weapon out of Scheel's could Scheel's be prosecuted for being a "co-conspirator", or for aiding and abetting a violation of the law?
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Excellent point! So, if someone gets arrested for carrying a "concealed" weapon out of Scheel's could Scheel's be prosecuted for being a "co-conspirator", or for aiding and abetting a violation of the law?
If it's like any other store, they will escort you to the door and/or edge of the property and then give you the firearm and send you on your way.
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they've told me flat out they allow CCW (although was a couple years ago) and i've bought and sold guns there. you walk in the front door with it up to the gun counters. and buying one, they take you down to some counter near the front door.
anyways, i've never seen that sign and i've been to South Pointe hundreds of times.
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Does Trader Joes count then as far as that signage goes? I open carried into TJ last week without any problems, but I try not to break rules :D
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Does it meet the definition of "conspicuous"? Does not appear that way.....
Can someone please show me where it says in the law that it is required to be conspicuous and anything about sign placement? Also, if the mall is posted prohibiting carry, but scheel's is posted allowing carry, which one applies?
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Does Trader Joes
All of South Pointe mall is posted by the mall itself. Someone recently posted a picture of the signage which is outside the west exit of Scheels. That includes Trader Joe's and the Food court south of it. Scheels itself is not posted, neither are many of the shops, like Panera's, but they are all included in the mall's general injunction. That means that when you visit the mall your gun goes into the gun safe in your trunk. :'(
If anyone gets shot by a mental defective and survives they can always sue the Mall and/or the specific shop for what ever, but good luck with that.
BTW, the Library on South 14th, across from the Cemetery, also put up a Knives and Guns prohibited sign recently.
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Can someone please show me where it says in the law that it is required to be conspicuous and anything about sign placement? Also, if the mall is posted prohibiting carry, but scheel's is posted allowing carry, which one applies?
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=69-2441 (http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=69-2441)
(2) If a person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or an employer in control of the property prohibits a permitholder from carrying a concealed handgun into or onto the place or premises and such place or premises are open to the public, a permitholder does not violate this section unless the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permitholder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises.
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All of South Pointe mall is posted by the mall itself. Someone recently posted a picture of the signage which is outside the west exit of Scheels. That includes Trader Joe's and the Food court south of it. Scheels itself is not posted, neither are many of the shops, like Panera's, but they are all included in the mall's general injunction. That means that when you visit the mall your gun goes into the gun safe in your trunk. :'(
If anyone gets shot by a mental defective and survives they can always sue the Mall and/or the specific shop for what ever, but good luck with that.
BTW, the Library on South 14th, across from the Cemetery, also put up a Knives and Guns prohibited sign recently.
Thanks for the heads-up! How is anyone supposed to know about the sign if they are not in that area of the mall? Crazy. I OC, but before I went in TJ, I looked all around the store front for any sort of sign. Nothing. Since I'm a rather frequent customer there (addicted to the coconut cookies and cheap wine), the employees know who I am. One of the guys working expressed approval of me open carrying, so I had no idea I was breaking rules. Oops.
I would completely write a letter or make a phone call if it would make any difference.
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Thanks for the heads-up! How is anyone supposed to know about the sign if they are not in that area of the mall? Crazy. I OC, but before I went in TJ, I looked all around the store front for any sort of sign. Nothing. Since I'm a rather frequent customer there (addicted to the coconut cookies and cheap wine), the employees know who I am. One of the guys working expressed approval of me open carrying, so I had no idea I was breaking rules. Oops.
I would completely write a letter or make a phone call if it would make any difference.
Concealed Carry laws do NOT apply to open carrying... ;)
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Concealed Carry laws do NOT apply to open carrying... ;)
Check the pick on post #23. It states no weapons, open or concealed.
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I don't think I'd have the guts to open carry anywhere that prohibits CC...I had a discussion with my friend from LPD about this very topic :)
The sign does encompass both. Irritating though. How is anyone going to see it way over at TJ?
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Check the pick on post #23. It states no weapons, open or concealed.
What law would one be breaking by openly carrying? All they could do is ask you to leave.
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What law would one be breaking by openly carrying? All they could do is ask you to leave.
The one against trespassing? (e.g., Neb. Rev. Stat. §28-521 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=s2805021000))
It is lawful for a property owner to set conditions on entry to his property. If you intentionally enter his property after having been given explicit notice of such a condition that you know you aren't complying with and you don't fall within some exception (e.g., you are land surveyor, etc.), you are trespassing.
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What law would one be breaking by openly carrying? All they could do is ask you to leave.
Not sure, but it seems to me to be disrespectful to a property owner to disregard his wishes. As much as I'm a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, I'm also a firm supporter of private property rights.
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Ok, so what is the state's definition of "conspicuous"? Who has priority as far as allowing/not allowing guns. Scheels says you can CC, but the mall says you can't. Who is the one you have to abide by?
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Concealed Carry laws do NOT apply to open carrying
But "No Gun" signs do.
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Ok, so what is the state's definition of "conspicuous"? Who has priority as far as allowing/not allowing guns. Scheels says you can CC, but the mall says you can't. Who is the one you have to abide by?
You've got a few questions wrapped up here.
First, "conspicuous" is... weird yes. LB352 was/is to address these issues.
http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,7265.0.html (http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,7265.0.html)
And:
http://nebraskalegislature.gov/bills/view_bill.php?DocumentID=17844 (http://nebraskalegislature.gov/bills/view_bill.php?DocumentID=17844)
Priority as far as allowing weaponry is a fun question. I am not a lawyer so take this as you will.
Within Scheel's and it's curtilage you are probably fine by following Scheel's policy.
The problem is that you can't GET TO Scheel's property without crossing 'generic owned by the mall custodian' property.
There is some interesting caveats to this.
I had a post a while back about a little strip mall that had no-guns signs at the entrances to the parking lot. In my mind, that makes things pretty clear.
For Scheel's this is more difficult, it's a HUGE area etc.
Buuuuttttt...
Lets go with say, Lefties Snausages House. This business doesn't allow concealed carry. You are perfectly fine to park in their drive way, walk up to their door, see the no-ccw sign, turn around and go back to your vehicle. You've not broken any law (AFAIK).
With Scheel's ... I... am not really sure if it's connected to other stores or only has it's own PRIVATE entrance/exits... but... I would assume that as long as you only entrances/exits that are Scheel's only, you would be fine. You are making use of public parking, etc.
If signs are posted at the entrances/exits of all of the parking lots for the mall area... then it might become a bit more weird. I imagine legally you'd still be fine (public parking space argument possibly ?) ... but that would bring us back to the property rights vs 2a kind of stuff that was heatedly debated here concerning LB335 hehehe.
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I think the big problem is the sign placement. You can't see it when you go to pretty much anywhere in the mall. I haven't noticed any signs in the parking lot or on individual store doors, so the only sign I'm aware of (through this forum...good eyes!) is the one that's kind of hidden inside the outdoor mall. Yeah. Weird.
This isn't legal advice, but I would guess that the only thing anyone could do is ask you to leave. I don't see any charges holding up in court unless you walked right past the sign. I've open carried at Trader Joes and Scheels and no one said anything, but I don't think I'm going to test it... :D