What would you do in these situations?

[MissMichella]

In light of recent events in Lincoln, I wanted to get some opinions on what people would do in certain situations...and would it make a difference if you were OC or CC?

1.  If you were in a business and someone was committing armed robbery, what would you do?

2.  If you were told to get in a stranger's vehicle...and you could tell they had some evil intentions, what would you do?

3.  If you were mugged while armed, what would you do?

Thanks!  Hope you all are having a happy and safe Monday.

[Lorimor]

1) it depends.  I'm not going to war over someone else's money. 

2) Being forced into a vehicle is the single biggest predictor of bad things to come.  DO NOT get in that vehicle!!! Time to go to war!

3) It depends.  Drawing into a drawn gun is a very low percentage proposition. 

Very few hard n' fast rules. 

"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

[SemperFiGuy]

Since You Asked:
(Assuming Armed CHP Holder in All Three Cases)

1.  If you were in a business and someone was committing armed robbery, what would you do?

Try to safely leave premises through side or back door, retreat to inner recesses, rest room, back office, employee part of store, whatever.

2.  If you were told to get in a stranger's vehicle...and you could tell they had some evil intentions, what would you do?

Should not ever get in a stranger's vehicle, whatever the apparent intentions.   If grabbed, struggle to get loose and safely retreat (unless it is a van full of Hooters Girls).

3.  If you were mugged while armed, what would you do?

Struggle to get loose and attempt to safely retreat.

Now, if none of the above attempts to Retreat With Complete Safety were successful, then a Whole New Scenario develops.

But........That's a separate issue and you didn't ask that question.

sfg

[MissMichella]

"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

This is a fantastic quote...love it.

This stuff has been on my mind after some of the recent news...plus just thinking over situations... I've debated the first scenario a lot...especially if someone's life were in danger.  Hm...

Since You Asked:


2.  If you were told to get in a stranger's vehicle...and you could tell they had some evil intentions, what would you do?

Should not ever get in a stranger's vehicle, whatever the apparent intentions.   If grabbed, struggle to get loose and safely retreat (unless it is a van full of Hooters Girls).


But........That's a separate issue and you didn't ask that question.

sfg

Hahaha.  Gross.
Okay...if I asked the question?

[Lorimor]

From "Armed and Female" by Paxton Quigley

"All the time I was locked in the trunk, I could hear him yelling from the drivers' seat about what he was going to do to me."

Kate Petit's car sputtered to a stop on the interstate highway between Lake Kissimmee and Tampa, where she lives alone in a nicely groomed but older condominium development on the established side of town.

"You know, I have never made that drive to the lake without worrying somewhere along the way about the risk of having a flat tire or breaking down and being stranded on the side of the road, alone."

Kate was stranded all right. What look to her like a mixture of smoke and steam was pouring out the top, bottom and sides of the engine compartment. She knew it was safer to stay in the car with the windows and doors secured, but sitting in a burning car, to her thinking, was by far the most dangerous thing she could do, so she grabbed her purse and took up a position at the side of the road at a conservative distance from the car's gas tank.

"I didn't know what to expect next. You hear so many stranded-women-on-the-highway stories that I became short of breath and nervous as soon as the car took its final gasp and I pulled to a stop on the shoulder of the road. Just being stopped on the highway after going sixty miles an hour for the last half-hour is unnerving enough, but with the car burning and all those cars whizzing by shaking the ground, I just hoped-well, maybe prayed-that state highway patrol car would pull up and some yes-ma'am-type trooper would tell me not to worry and take me home."

The car that stopped was not a highway-patrol car, and Kate tried to reason with herself that anyone stopping, short of an actual policeman, could be more a of a problem than her stalled car, but she knew she couldn't stand there all day. So she greeted the well-dressed, middle aged good samaritan with enthusiasm for his assistance, and grinned a big hello with an audible sigh of relief.

"I had to size up the situation in a hurry." said Kate. "Here was this respectable-looking car on the highway and backed all the way up in front of me and my burning car. I didn't have much choice except to ask him for help."

Kate was right. She had no choice. After being polite and sympathetic, the man took a knife from the inside pocket of his suit coat and pressed it sharply into Kate's ribs, telling her that if she didn't cooperate he would push the knife into her heart.

"He slit a tear in my blouse and I felt the knife cut me. I was absolutely numb. All of a sudden there was no more traffic noise, or even a fear of being struck on the highway , or any concern for my car," explained Kate. "I was this man's prisoner."

Kate was ordered into the trunk of the man's car. She had no choice. She got in the trunk. The man drove with Kate in the trunk for what Kate guessed to be a half-hour. The last few minutes were on an unpaved road; then the car stopped and the engine was turned off. During the entire time, the man yelled back obscenities to Kate in the trunk. She wouldn't respond when he demanded to know if she could hear him, so he yelled louder and got more obscene. When the car stopped, Kate recalls vividly the sound of the key in the trunk lock.

By the time she heard that sound, Kate had repositioned herself so that she was lying on her back, her feet tucked up under her, and her knees pushing hard up against the inside the back seat, and she hoped the overhang wouldn't obstruct a clear view of him when he opened the trunk. She knew he would have his knife out- that was the only thing she was really sure of.

Kate doesn't remember when the man stopped yelling at her in the trunk, and doesn't remember what he said as he opened the trunk. All she remembers is the flood of daylight momentarily blinding her when the trunk lid popped open and an almost slow-motion sight of the bullet holes being made in the man's chest by the 38-caliber revolver she took out of her purse.

She had planned to shoot every bullet in her gun at the man when the trunk opened, but after three shots he slumped into the trunk on top of her, dead.

"The nightmare was over, but when he fell on me, bleeding, I became so frightened I thought I was suffocating. I gashed my head on the lid as I got out of the trunk. It was so horrible having him lie on top of me, dead like that. When I got out of the trunk, I forced his legs in beside him and slammed the lid. I went over to a tree and threw up.

"You know, I have carried that gun for years in my purse when I drive alone or have to go into areas of town I think are unsafe. It's funny, but all those years I never really thought about actually shooting someone, much less killing anyone. But I frequently recognized a feeling of being safe or being less vulnerable when I had my gun with me. And when this horrible thing happened, my only fear was about not having the opportunity to get to it. You're not going to believe this, but when he put me in the trunk with my purse I was very relieved." Kate firmly said.

The police investigation revealed that the dead man was a twice convicted felon who had previously been found guilty of eleven counts of sexual assault, including sodomy, child molestation, and rape. He had served prison sentences in another state at various times for a number of convictions. At the time he picked up Kate on the highway, he was out on parole for good prison behavior after having served only twenty-two months for raping a woman and her twelve year old daughter.

[Mudinyeri]

1. It depends
2. It depends
3. It depends

[OnTheFly]

1.  If you were in a business and someone was committing armed robbery, what would you do?

Family in the mall and not with me: Do everything possible to find them and make sure they vacate the mall to safety.

No family at the mall: Get out, call the police, fight my way to safety if necessary.

2.  If you were told to get in a stranger's vehicle...and you could tell they had some evil intentions, what would you do?

Never get in a vehicle.  Similar to when someone tries to heard you to the back room of a business/residence.  That rarely ends well.

3.  If you were mugged while armed, what would you do?

If you were not aware enough that they got the drop on you and pulled a weapon within usable range, then comply unless you have good reason to believe they want your life in addition to your money.  Then you are in a lose-lose situation.  Might as well die trying to live instead of laying down and taking it like a pacifist I suppose.

Fly

[OnTheFly]

1. It depends
2. It depends
3. It depends

Yeah...really too many variables.  In the mall, do I have cancer and only 2 months to live? If so, I might as well go out in a blaze of glory or get my name in the paper for saving lives.

Fly

[JTH]

The number of "it depends" answers to MissMichella's questions got me to thinking about some of the other answers to questions like that I've seen over time, which got me to do a bit of writing about "what if" questions.

http://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/what-would-you-do-if/

I really like the fact that so far, pretty much everyone's answer has included a lot of "it depends." That is not sarcasm---"it depends" IS a good answer to those questions.

[RedDot]

1) The original plan in all instances would be ...Run.
2) Rapid adaptation and improvisation as necessary to overcome obstacles to original plan.
3) If original plan becomes an impossibility, draw your weapon and permanently ruin badguy's day.

[abbafandr]

1  As long as I am not being personally threatened, would try to avoid confrontation.

2 Being "told" to get in the vehicle?  How am I being told, at gun point or them just saying for me to get in? 

3 Would depend.

[abbafandr]

The number of "it depends" answers to MissMichella's questions got me to thinking about some of the other answers to questions like that I've seen over time, which got me to do a bit of writing about "what if" questions.

http://precisionresponse.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/what-would-you-do-if/

I really like the fact that so far, pretty much everyone's answer has included a lot of "it depends." That is not sarcasm---"it depends" IS a good answer to those questions.

Good article, like always.  I know I'm always looking around and trying to decide what I would do in different situations.  It kinda drives the wife crazy so I don't mention it to her much

[MissMichella]

I suppose I should have come up with more specific scenarios

[OnTheFly]

I suppose I should have come up with more specific scenarios

That probably wouldn't have helped this crowd.   

You could have been a LOT more descriptive and we would still have been saying "It depends".  So many variables that could only be answered by living it, and hopefully, through it. 

Fly

[JTH]

I suppose I should have come up with more specific scenarios

Something to ask might be:

Given a situation where you were in a business and someone was committing armed robbery, what would make you stay and fight versus attempting to immediately escape?

Say that you were in a store (not your own business) where you were one of several customers near the cashier when an armed robbery began to take place. 

What sorts of things would trigger the "fight" reaction, as opposed to merely standing quietly through the occurrence, or attempting to escape the situation?

----------------

MissMichella, your questions were perfectly valid, and discussions of this sort can be very useful.  However, crafting an incredibly detailed scenario can be a pain---so one way around it is to make the person answering add the details that would cause them to change their reactions.   

(Another is to pull a scenario from a real-life occurrence.  However, often the problem with that is you get a lot of after-the-fact quarterbacking from people who don't have realistic ideas of their own skills.  I'm not saying that happens here, I'm just saying it is something you'll see often on various forums in response to "what if you'd been HERE" questions.  The famous, "Well, I woulda..." line shows up.)

[Mudinyeri]

I suppose I should have come up with more specific scenarios

Unfortunately, there are literally millions of variables in each of those scenarios.  It's chaos theory.  We would need computer modeling on the order of that utilized by the National Weather Service and even then we'd only be as accurate as the weather forecasters.

Speaking in VERY general terms:
1. Remain unengaged if at all possible.
2. De-escalate and dis-engage if at all possible.
3. Resolve without utilizing a firearm if at all possible.
4. As a last resort, utilize a firearm to resolve the situation by stopping the threat.

Of course, any situation can go from 1 to 4 in a split second.

[MissMichella]

Something to ask might be:

Given a situation where you were in a business and someone was committing armed robbery, what would make you stay and fight versus attempting to immediately escape?

Say that you were in a store (not your own business) where you were one of several customers near the cashier when an armed robbery began to take place. 

What sorts of things would trigger the "fight" reaction, as opposed to merely standing quietly through the occurrence, or attempting to escape the situation?

I've mulled over various scenarios and completely agree with the "it depends" answer.  There's a lot of variables that play into a violent confrontation.

With the robbery scenario (thought over due to the rash of armed robberies happening in Lincoln), I guess I was debating fight or flight.  I carry to protect my family and myself, but if I felt someone was going to be injured severely or killed, I don't know if I could live with myself if I did nothing.  I think I would react in different ways if I were alone or had my child with me as well...At what point in a violent situation do others feel morally obligated to do what they can to mitigate damages?  Would stepping in potentially cause the situation to be worse? 

As far as the abduction this last weekend goes, if it was me (armed or not)...I would hopefully be describing the creeps to LPD as "the guys with bruises and scratches."

If I saw someone being violently assaulted in the street, what would be the best course of action?

A few years ago, I was the target of a stranger's random act of violence (he was charged with five felonies including felony assault with a deadly weapon...however he was found not guilty by reasons of insanity).  I did not carry at that time, and I wonder if it would have made the situation turn out any differently. 

This reply does not flow well...I suppose I need to get some more coffee 

[bullit]

In all cases, I would wet my pants, vomit in my mouth and as a last resort blow my "rape whistle".

[RedDot]

 

In all cases, I would wet my pants, vomit in my mouth and as a last resort blow my "rape whistle".

Wet your pants?  SFG never mentioned or demonstrated that in his CHP course...should I feel somehow cheated?

[OnTheFly]

Wet your pants?  SFG never mentioned or demonstrated that in his CHP course...should I feel somehow cheated?

My training has raised my response to a higher level.  I bypass wetting and go straight to soiling myself.

Fly