Nebraska Crossing Outlets

[Critter]

I just posted this on the Nebraska Crossing Outlets FB page.  Go "like" the hell out of it if you can as I am sure they will remove it.  Just hoping they get the point that we all want to be able to protect ourselves and our families if the need arises.

[Lmbass14]

Gone.  That didn't last long.  Didn't get a chance to "like" it.

[RLMoeller]

It's still there, just not on the main page.  It's listed under "Recent Posts by others"

[Bucket]

I don't think spamming up their facebook page with pro-gun propaganda is going to help the cause.  The same points can and should be made in a more appropriate manner.  Turning their facebook page into a gun debate vs a place for them to market their business is only going to turn off the management.

[gsd]

I don't think spamming up their facebook page with pro-gun propaganda is going to help the cause.  The same points can and should be made in a more appropriate manner.  Turning their facebook page into a gun debate vs a place for them to market their business is only going to turn off the management.

Thank you for saying what I was tryin to figure out how to.

[NENick]

I don't think spamming up their facebook page with pro-gun propaganda is going to help the cause.  The same points can and should be made in a more appropriate manner.  Turning their facebook page into a gun debate vs a place for them to market their business is only going to turn off the management.

Ya, we can make it private so that there is no public relations disaster to deal with. That way, when they say they aren't changing their minds, it doesn't cost them anything.

[Critter]

Well I didn't spam up their page....It was one post showing how I and many others feel about what they are doing.  All you had to do was "like" it and move on unless of course you don't feel the same way.  FB is a major way of life now and is a great contact point, my company even uses it.  It is a great way to voice concerns and it's been my experience that the squeaky wheel get the grease.  If you don’t stand up for your rights now, then you have no justification to complain about it when you lose those rights.  I'm just trying to stay pro-active with this and do what I can to show my support.  What would you suggest we do or more importantly what are you doing?   If you don’t like what I have done, then don’t support it but don’t waste my time and others by criticizing my efforts.   

[Bucket]

Well I didn't spam up their page....It was one post showing how I and many others feel about what they are doing.  All you had to do was "like" it and move on unless of course you don't feel the same way.  FB is a major way of life now and is a great contact point, my company even uses it.  It is a great way to voice concerns and it's been my experience that the squeaky wheel get the grease.  If you don’t stand up for your rights now, then you have no justification to complain about it when you lose those rights.  I'm just trying to stay pro-active with this and do what I can to show my support.  What would you suggest we do or more importantly what are you doing?   If you don’t like what I have done, then don’t support it but don’t waste my time and others by criticizing my efforts.   

By making one post advocating gun rights you are endorsing similar conduct by others.  The post had nothing to do with the outlets nor did it directly address their policy or the current issues surrounding it.  Facebook can certainly be a great communication tool, but communication involves both transmitting and receiving.  The point I'm making is that there is very little chance your post will do much to convince anyone of anything, at least in that context.  People go to the page seeking info about the malls, not a general argument in favor of the 2nd Amendment. 

By keeping posts relevant and topical you have a much better chance of engaging people and spreading the message and building support.  I'm sure the management is well aware of the issues, so who were you trying to convince?  People going to the page looking for info about the mall and it's vendors aren't going there to be preached to about gun control and likely don't have any awareness of the issue.  Imagine the young mom looking for info to plan Black Friday shopping only to come across some "gun nut" post.  What sort of message does that send?

I think getting the issue in the news, writing to the management, or even posting your displeasure about the specific policy is all appropriate.  I'm all in favor of standing up for rights, but this isn't a rights issue.  It's a private property issue.  The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease.  Sometimes it just gets swapped out for another one that makes less noise. 

[Critter]

"By making one post advocating gun rights you are endorsing similar conduct by others.  The post had nothing to do with the outlets nor did it directly address their policy or the current issues surrounding it."

I am endorsing similar conduct and it has everything to with the outlets and their policies.  Tell you what, I'll let you contact the news and write management and this "gun nut" will just bug them on FB like everyone else.
 
As for your other comment, "The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease.  Sometimes it just gets swapped out for another one that makes less noise."  <------Good Luck.

[Bucket]

"By making one post advocating gun rights you are endorsing similar conduct by others.  The post had nothing to do with the outlets nor did it directly address their policy or the current issues surrounding it."

I am endorsing similar conduct and it has everything to with the outlets and their policies.  Tell you what, I'll let you contact the news and write management and this "gun nut" will just bug them on FB like everyone else.
 
As for your other comment, "The squeaky wheel doesn't always get the grease.  Sometimes it just gets swapped out for another one that makes less noise."  <------Good Luck.

You can do whatever you like, but you're kidding yourself if you think posting stuff like that on their facebook page is going to promote the cause or change people's minds.  It merely plays to the the stereotype that gun owners are a bunch of obsessed, single-minded hicks.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think things like that have an impact.  At best, you'll be ignored.  Constructive engagement is usually the best way to communicate.  Seems to me that the management of the mall was pretty reasonable when approached about the policy and decided to re-look at their decision.  "Bugging" people on facebook might make you feel good or give you something to crow about to like minded people, but it it just adds noise to the grown-up conversation.

[Critter]

Then stay outta my sandbox and leave this "like minded hick" alone, since you are obviously much more cultured and educated than the rest of us.  Maybe you should go check out their FB page and see how many of us "like minded hicks" have been voicing our opinion.  That's why they have been re-thinking their position, the voice of the people. 

     

[FarmerRick]

You can do whatever you like, but you're kidding yourself if you think posting stuff like that on their facebook page is going to promote the cause or change people's minds.  It merely plays to the the stereotype that gun owners are a bunch of obsessed, single-minded hicks.

I think you're fooling yourself if you think things like that have an impact.  At best, you'll be ignored.  Constructive engagement is usually the best way to communicate.  Seems to me that the management of the mall was pretty reasonable when approached about the policy and decided to re-look at their decision.  "Bugging" people on facebook might make you feel good or give you something to crow about to like minded people, but it it just adds noise to the grown-up conversation.

Lots of people(such as myself and many other members of the NFOA and it's board) posting on the mall's Facebook page is what got the whole situation the publicity from KMTV and others that it has.

If their Facebook page hadn't been bombarded by pro-concealed carry posts, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

To Critter I say:  Carry on!   

[greg58]

To Critter I say:  Carry on!   

Agreed, do what you feel you must.

Greg58

[bullit]

I've held my fingers so long on this trying to resist......  IF no one would have contacted them in the first place it most likely have NEVER become an issue i.e. no conspicuously posted signs ala Village Pointe, Southpoint in Lincoln etc, etc, etc. and subsequently NOT in compliance with state statute.....

[Bucket]

Lots of people(such as myself and many other members of the NFOA and it's board) posting on the mall's Facebook page is what got the whole situation the publicity from KMTV and others that it has.

If their Facebook page hadn't been bombarded by pro-concealed carry posts, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

To Critter I say:  Carry on!   

It was people specifically pointing out that they were displeased with the policy via phone, email, and fb, not a bunch of pro-gun infographics on their page that caused them to reconsider.  Again, constructive engagement. 

I think it's great that people contacted them to express their displeasure about the no weapons policy, and clearly that caused them to reconsider (though I haven't read if they've rescinded it yet).  All I'm saying is that there are better ways to communicate that posting up a bunch of 2A propaganda on the malls fb page.

The non-specific "rah-rah" stuff isn't going to convert anyone.  It might get some backslaps and "amens" from like minded people, but it certainly won't change anyone's mind. Would it change yours?

[RedDot]

Ah..but, if I could guess at the situation from the Mall's end,  I find it more likely that someone monitoring the FB page made an emergency call to Mgmt. saying "OMG the page has blow up over the no carry policy! What do we do?!?" as opposed to the clerk who browsed over an Email and thought "My what a well constructed and courteous response in opposition to our policies.", then deleted it.    Let Critter have his fun. 

[AWick]

Think they'll make it through this letter that I sent?

Store Management,

I want to express my thanks to you as I was informed recently that you will be reviewing your "No Concealed Carry" policy. A few years ago I was "jumped" by a group of 6 men who were never found and I was left badly beaten. I did not go out to find this trouble, it found me. Since then I have chosen to protect myself and part of that is through concealed carry. There are countless instances where lawful gun owners have protected themselves and a great majority of these cases are without the potential victim even firing a shot. I was also one of the few customers that did a lot of shopping at this mall before it got renovated; to the tune of over $2,000 in the last year. I also rewarded the Nebraska Furniture Mart when they reversed their policy with a purchase of $3,500 that I was prepared to make at their competitor.

I want to outline the steps required for this permit and shed some light on the culture and extra responsibilities that these permit holders must shoulder. The best part is that you can reverse your policy without any mass announcement to allow Concealed Carry and it will have not have any impact on the currently disarmed shoppers from frequenting your store. All you have to do is take down the signs, that's it. We chose to be legal law abiding citizens with extra responsibilities and know that no sign will ever prevent a deranged lunatic from attacking a mall, a theater, or school. No sign that you currently have will stop someone from carrying a weapon there currently. You only have a hope and a prayer that someone doesn't chose your location as their target. I chose to have a defensive weapon to protect myself and my family so that I am prepared if I need to be. My hope and prayer is that I never have to. There is no crime that a person can commit with a CHP that they can't also commit while illegally carrying. To them, it is just another charge, but they don't care because they are already choosing to commit a violent crime.

There is a long and costly process to receive the permit and the typical CHP holder has extra money to spend. First, the permit applicant must be at least 21, not a felon, no DUI in the last 10 years, and several other restrictions. They must take a certified 8 hour class, these usually run from $100 to $150. In this class they go through an extensive reading and understanding of the laws regarding use of force for self defense. My instructor nailed every one of those laws home and gave very good examples and case studies of each. Then there is a shooting course where the person is tested on the FBI target, the same one their agents use, granted in a different setting. My instructor went through a shoot - no shoot exercise to have us make split second decisions under stress. At the class the instructor inspects our gear and makes suggestions for the safest methods of carry to eliminate any possible accidents, which are already unheard of in the CHP world. Second, we have to make an appointment with the Nebraska State Patrol to apply in person and get fingerprinted. A large portion of gun owners see fingerprinting as too much gun control, however, those of us that wish to have the ability to defend ourselves are willing to go this extra step. The cost of that application is $100. At this point the permit applicant has paid $150 for the class, $100 to the State Patrol, $500-600 minimum for a reliable firearm and another $150 to $200 in proper equipment to carry and ammunition... $1,000 minimum, 8 hours in a class and another hour at the NSP office at this point, hardly the undertaking for your average criminal who already carries illegally without a permit. Next is the extensive federal, state, and local background check along with ensuring that the applicant is mentally sound and has never been charged in any domestic abuse cases. This background check is very thorough. Finally, after an average "start-to-finish" of at least a 6 weeks process the applicant finally receives their permit.

There are several extra rules and responsibilities. One is that you must inform a law enforcement officer or EMT during official contact that you are a permit holder and whether or not you are currently carrying. There is a zero tolerance policy with regards to alcohol consumption while carrying. An individual can't even have any alcohol on their breath from a couple of drinks the night before and has to blow a 0.000 without question. In order to draw their weapon the CHP holder must reasonably fear that their life or another persons life is in grave danger, no exceptions. If, while a permit holder, an individual is found guilty of a DUI, any felony, any misdemeanor domestic abuse or several other charges, they must turn in their permit or face jail time, even if the charge that they are found guilty of requires no jail time. A DUI means they lose their CHP for at least 10 years. These added restrictions mean that CHP holders not only are legal law abiding citizens before they pass the test, but the multitude of hoops that they have to jump through and the heavy restrictions while being a permit holder keep these individuals life long upstanding citizens.

I appreciate your time in reading this and hope that you've made it all the way through without dismissing me as just another "gun nut". I take this very serious and after I was viciously attacked I have always maintained my right to be able to defend myself. If you have any questions, I urge you to consult with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association (NFOA) with regards to our training and responsibility. They were extremely helpful to me in learning how to properly defend myself and my family after I was attacked.

Respectfully and Hopefully,

A Future Customer,

AXXXXXXXXXX

Hopefully the initial FB barrage got their attention and now a nice informative letter like that can have them say, "hmmm, ya know, this fella might be on to something." I mean, we can dream, right?

[Bucket]

Think they'll make it through this letter that I sent?

Hopefully the initial FB barrage got their attention and now a nice informative letter like that can have them say, "hmmm, ya know, this fella might be on to something." I mean, we can dream, right?

Awick, that's great.  While it's a bit long, it is a polite effort to explain a complex issue.  Hopefully they will take the time to read and think about what you wrote.

[jFader]

I was already planning on not going to the stores there unless I had to. As a construction worker I think its absolutely ridiculous the schedule that they gave everyone to finish those jobs in. I personally did not work there but I know quite a few workers who did. They required tradesmen on some jobs to work in 3 shifts, so you actually had people working all night long, 7 days a week to finish a 'retail space'...the no legal ccw policy guarntees that you won't catch me anywhere near there.

I am new to the forum & to concealed carry & had a question.

 The letter above that was sent to the management referenced that you can lose your license for ten years if convicted of dui. Is that true & if so is it at someone's discretion or automatic? I need to reRead all the state patrol stuff but I didn't remember reading that. I try not to ever drink & drive, but .08 is a son of a b....