SBR parts before tax stamp?

[SHEP]

I have seen threads asking similar questions but not my specific question. I have plans for a future SBR build. Can I buy ALL of the parts while/before my tax stamp is approved. Obviously I won't assemble it until ATF approval. The wife and I have plans for kids in the near future and I want to get a head start on this.

[jonm]

no

[FarmerRick]

If it is an AR15 that you are building, just get a Pistol buffer tube and assemble it as a pistol while you wait.

[00BUCK]

no

That's not true at all - you can buy all the parts you want - it's what you do with them that matters. Like FarmerRick says - build an AR pistol then when you get your stamp swap the pistol buffer tube for a carbine butt stock and tube.

[rluening]

I'm not sure on the vagaries of building up the pistol, but I am pretty sure having a short barrel and a stock, along with a lower, upper, and all the other bits to make an SBR is considered possession of an SBR whether they are assembled or not.

Perhaps one of the lawyers 'round here can weigh in on constructive intent.

/rl

[jonm]

if you have an ar pistol with a butt stock assembly waiting to go on it, how is that different than an ar rifle with a short barrel waiting to go on it?

[tstuart34]

If it is an AR15 that you are building, just get a Pistol buffer tube and assemble it as a pistol while you wait.

Yep what Rick said... you could pick a Sig pistol brace and have some pre tax fun. I was reading some on arfcom and i cant find the thread now of course but you can shoulder it just like a pistol buffer and be a little more comfy while shooting

Or do a eform and get your stamp in about three months...

[FarmerRick]

if you have an ar pistol with a butt stock assembly waiting to go on it, how is that different than an ar rifle with a short barrel waiting to go on it?

AR pistol buffer tubes do not readily accept a buttstock, hence you can have as many buttstocks laying around as you'd like.

Lots of good reading here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/51_Short_Barrel_Rifles__SBR_.html

  and here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_3/122_AR_Pistols.html

[tstuart34]

Keep it simple dont order a stock and rifle buffer until you have your stamp. If you have a rifle and pistol your gtg.

Read what rick posted

[skydve76]

Regardless, buy lowers NOW, register NOW, then worry about the rest.

[jonm]

AR pistol buffer tubes do not readily accept a buttstock, hence you can have as many buttstocks laying around as you'd like.

Notice I said assembly. That is part of "all the parts" to build a SBR like SHEP has asked.

[skydve76]

I am not an expert at all but based on what I have read:

I would not even worry about a pistol buffer tube.  Just use a normal one and fill in the screw holes with something like spackle or epoxy that can later be removed with a little effort, and wrap the tube with some tape.  Just make it so its not easy to attach and detach a stock on the fly.

This is about as risky as j walking.  If your tax stamp is submitted and you do this no one is going to be able to charge you with anything.  Constructive intent?  Well then I guess they could also scrounge up enough cleaning supplies in my house to say I have what I need to make a bomb or meth.

[00BUCK]

I wouldn't mess with a rifle tube. You can have one laying around - it is not a rifle until you put a butt stock on it, or a tube that can accept a butt stock. That said, most rifle tubes have a 3/8 " wide rib on the bottom to keep a butt stock from spinning - I'm pretty sure the BATFE would consider that a rifle tube even if you fill in the holes and tape it. Just pony up the $20 and get a pistol tube - have fun shooting the pistol until your NFA paperwork is complete and you get your stamp. It's not like they are hard to swap out ...

[gsd]

Well then I guess they could also scrounge up enough cleaning supplies in my house to say I have what I need to make a bomb or meth.

Welcome to the NSA Monitor List. (im kidding of course. or am I? )

[bkoenig]

I am not an expert at all but based on what I have read:

I would not even worry about a pistol buffer tube.  Just use a normal one and fill in the screw holes with something like spackle or epoxy that can later be removed with a little effort, and wrap the tube with some tape.  Just make it so its not easy to attach and detach a stock on the fly.

This is about as risky as j walking.  If your tax stamp is submitted and you do this no one is going to be able to charge you with anything.  Constructive intent?  Well then I guess they could also scrounge up enough cleaning supplies in my house to say I have what I need to make a bomb or meth.

I wouldn't chance it.  This isn't just an academic exercise, people have been arrested and jailed for constructive possession because they had all the parts even though they weren't assembled.  Just assemble it as a pistol with a pistol buffer tube, or keep the upper at a friend's house (someone who either already has an sbr AR15 or has NO ar15). 

[CitizenClark]

I'm not sure on the vagaries of building up the pistol, but I am pretty sure having a short barrel and a stock, along with a lower, upper, and all the other bits to make an SBR is considered possession of an SBR whether they are assembled or not.

This depends in part on whether there is some other use to which you could put those parts. If you possess an AR pistol, plus a rifle buffer/stock assembly, and you don't have an AR configured as a rifle, my understanding is that ATF takes the position that this amounts to "constructive possession" of an unregistered NFA firearm.

Whenever you see the word "constructive" in the law, understand that it basically means the next word is false, but that the enforcers are going to act as if it were true. "Constructive possession" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not your intend to "construct" something. ATF might similarly describe as "constructive possession" a scenario where I leave the house and my wife knows the combination to the safe where my NFA firearms are held. She isn't _actually_ in possession of those firearms, but because she has the means to possess and control them, ATF is going to act as though she actually possessed them.

Bottom line: The risk may be slight, but I would strongly encourage folks not to tempt fate by getting the requisite parts together in your possession for an NFA firearm before you have the tax stamp in hand.

Perhaps one of the lawyers 'round here can weigh in on constructive intent.

/rl

[rluening]

Thanks, CitizenClark. That was basically my understanding - constructive possession or constructive intent only requires possessing all the pieces. There's no need to prove that they were ever assembled, just that they _could_ be assembled.

/rl

[SHEP]

Thanks for all of the good info. Easily understandable. I'm not one to tempt my fate when it comes to firearms. I like the pistol idea. I do have an AR rifle, so that could technically be "constructive possession" I guess, because it has a buffer tube and butt stock. Do pistols have to be registered in any way? NFA or non-NFA?

[SHEP]

BTW, this is the upper/lower i'm looking at.

http://workingmansarmory.com/the-ar-15-project/billet-upper-gallery/

[skydve76]

If you build a pistol you may need to register it with OPD if you do not have a CHP.
If you buy a pistol version you will need a pistol purchase permit.