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Author Topic: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...  (Read 2194 times)

Offline JTH

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Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« on: March 03, 2014, 08:52:21 PM »
You are welcome.   ;D


My Personal Path Away From The 1911
BY Hilton Yam   


"It has been noted more than once that lately there seem to have been many MSW articles recommending against the use of the 1911 as a service pistol.  This is not really a new trend, and even since the days of the 10-8 Forums we have always cautioned folks that the 1911 is not for the casual user.

Starting with IPSC back in the 80?s, I traveled a long road of being a devoted user of the 1911 in both competition and duty applications, a builder of custom 1911s, and a designer of 1911 components.  The last 15 years or so had seen the 1911 absolutely dominate my existence, and everything I did seemed to revolve around the gun.  With all this devotion to the 1911, it is even more telling then why I went away from it...



http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6631
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 09:25:09 PM »
The High Power is a more refined, gentleman's pistol anyway :P

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 09:33:35 PM »
I'll take one of each! The more I put my hands on the M&P the more I want one... But I have the little brother to a real 1911 in 22lr and I love the feel of it. That gun makes me want to get a RIA 2011 Double stack if they ever come out.... good thing I have kids or I might have a gun problem  :(

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 08:29:32 AM »
You are welcome.   ;D


My Personal Path Away From The 1911
BY Hilton Yam   


"It has been noted more than once that lately there seem to have been many MSW articles recommending against the use of the 1911 as a service pistol.  This is not really a new trend, and even since the days of the 10-8 Forums we have always cautioned folks that the 1911 is not for the casual user.

Starting with IPSC back in the 80?s, I traveled a long road of being a devoted user of the 1911 in both competition and duty applications, a builder of custom 1911s, and a designer of 1911 components.  The last 15 years or so had seen the 1911 absolutely dominate my existence, and everything I did seemed to revolve around the gun.  With all this devotion to the 1911, it is even more telling then why I went away from it...



http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6631

He pretty much echoes what Vickers told us in last fall's 1911 "Operators" class.  :)   

If I were maintaining a fleet of handguns for a police dept, etc, I wouldn't go with 1911's.   Simply too labor intensive.   The various polymer guns will run rings around the old warhorse in that environment.  Too many things can go wrong with 'em.  Loose plunger tubes.  Loose ejectors.  Battered and weak extractors.  Cheap mags.  The user has to stay on top of spring maintenance, particularly on the less than 5" guns.  (Wilson's adaptation of the Glock flat wire recoil spring has improved that situation though.  Spring life is MUCH improved.)

Since I'm a bit of a mechanic AND I buy fairly high end 1911's, I get away with running them for my personal use.  But in all honestly, my ol' 2007 Wilson CQB has required no work done to it.  (Neither have my other ones.)  It simply runs, provided I feed it quality ammo (meaning, my lame reloading QA dept doesn't somehow miss a loose lock nut on the taper crimp die and subsequently turn out several hundred improperly crimped reloads.) :)  The old CQB has fired many, many thousands of rounds and has needed no work at all.  (Many training classes as well.)  It's still running the original extractor!  :)  I remember one slightly irritated adjunct instructor at TR when both my brother's and my CQB wouldn't cooperate in setting up a malfunction because they would both feed empty cases out of the mag without a hiccup.  (They were supposed to hang up.)  :)  Team Wilson knows how to set up a 1911 (and Bill Wilson is living the good life as a result.)  :)

I don't run 1911's 'cause I think they make me a better shooter.  Age and eyesight are my limiting factors.  The trigger's great on the 1911, but truthfully, I shoot my Glock 19 just about as well.   

In all honesty, I admit that those few who have approached me for advice on "what carry gun should I get?"  I unhesitatingly tell 'em, "Get a Glock 19." 

Money is better spent on training, practice and ammo. 

But I like my Wilsons. 
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 08:33:22 AM »
I have no desire to carry a 1911, but I still want one for the same reason that I own an 1874 Sharps.  It's just a beautiful, classic design that's a ton of fun to shoot.

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 09:09:57 AM »
Back to the "empty case" malfunction set up.  Here's a polymer gun guy who has to suffer with that kind of nonsense.  :)



I'm not sure I agree with his approach.  Re-inserting the mag may or may not clear the stoppage of the type he sets up (he demonstrates it, so it must work), but I feel it adds a needless complication.  If the gun stops and the standard TRB approach doesn't clear it, it's time to drop the mag and start racking!  Who has the time or more accurately, who WANTS to take the time, to assess the type of stoppage?  Is an empty case simply hung up somewhere in there or are you dealing with the infamous "double feed" stoppage?  Are you going to take extra time to determine what's hung up the gun?

RIP, rack, rack, rack, re-insert, rack again and hopefully the gun goes bang if necessary.  :)
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 09:46:42 AM »
If it doesn't go bang then throw the gun at the bad guy and run away screaming.

Offline bullit

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 11:39:35 AM »
Lorimor I'll have to put Jacques up there with Pincus (and his Critical Dynamic Incidents) in my hierarchy of "ilLOGICal solutions" to rare problems.  Sometimes I think I made a bad career choice vice a job where I can sit around and formulate ways to come up with a new spin on an already solved problem.  One thing I would be interested in that there is really no way to study is how many TACTICool students of the gun have ever been involved in a gun fight where said techniques have been needed.  Furthermore, it would be interesting to know how many of the write ups in the "Armed Citizen" column of the NRA rag have needed to exercise an IAD. ....

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 02:43:17 PM »
Lorimor I'll have to put Jacques up there with Pincus (and his Critical Dynamic Incidents) in my hierarchy of "ilLOGICal solutions" to rare problems.  Sometimes I think I made a bad career choice vice a job where I can sit around and formulate ways to come up with a new spin on an already solved problem.  One thing I would be interested in that there is really no way to study is how many TACTICool students of the gun have ever been involved in a gun fight where said techniques have been needed.  Furthermore, it would be interesting to know how many of the write ups in the "Armed Citizen" column of the NRA rag have needed to exercise an IAD. ....

I'm going to go waaaaaaayyyyyy out on a limb and say the odds of ever needing to perform an IAD approach zero.  Probably have better odds of Dear Leader renouncing his economic policies and publicly embracing lassez faire Capitalism. 

But, on the other hand, there's this guy who will advise you that the more reliable your handgun, the more you should practice malfunction clearance drills. 

Never having been in a serious altercation of any kind, I can only speculate but I'm thinkin' that if for instance, things didn't go quite the way you planned (which does happen), and suddenly you are thumpin' a BG upside the head with the heater 'cause he showed up while you were drawing a fine bead on his equally nefarious buddy, maybe an IAD might be required after the attitude adjustment. 

Regardless, it provides an avenue for Internet chatter.  :)
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 07:38:07 AM »
Speaking of Bill Wilson "living the good life", his old place in Arkansas is up for sale:

http://wilsoncombat.com/house/

Buy it for me Bullit and I swear I'll never say another cross word about Texas again.  I might even let you shoot there once in awhile for a small fee. 
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 07:45:02 AM »
Speaking of Bill Wilson "living the good life", his old place in Arkansas is up for sale:

http://wilsoncombat.com/house/

Buy it for me Bullit and I swear I'll never say another cross word about Texas again.  I might even let you shoot there once in awhile for a small fee. 

WOW!
I wonder how many times people have tripped over the lions head? :laugh:


Offline bullit

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 11:20:42 AM »
Speaking of Bill Wilson "living the good life", his old place in Arkansas is up for sale:

http://wilsoncombat.com/house/

Buy it for me Bullit and I swear I'll never say another cross word about Texas again.  I might even let you shoot there once in awhile for a small fee. 

Now that would be a nice place to own.  Maybe I could borrow the money from my friendly MRI/CT repair guy.....and he could visit me when he wasn't jaunting off to Thunder Ranch....

Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Posted because I know Lorimor will love it...
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2014, 08:27:17 PM »
I am obviously in the wrong line of work.