Home defense shotgun loads.

[farmerbob]

http://www.homedefensegun.net/shotgun-ballistics/

[Chris C]

One reason I don't use a shotgun for HD but I would be interested in spacing the walls out to simulate a real house.  Say 12' between the first and second wall.  Might make a little difference might not. 

[DenmanShooter]

Not sure the point of all these ballistic tests on dry wall / stud walls.

No matter what round you use, if you miss your target, it's going through the wall unless you hit something substantial.

And depending on the load it's going to go through even if you hit your target.

Since I live in a rural area, I don't really have to worry about neighbors so I guess I am OK.

I would be sure to make sure where my wife or guests were located though. 

I can patch a wall.  Can't say the same about a person.   

[Mntnman]

I think 7 1/2 steel shot would be the least likely to over penetrate, especially if you could get it in a field load.

[RedDot]

I'd just wait till I hear Joe Biden's expert opinion before making any decision. 

[Kendahl]

7 1/2 steel shot would be the least likely to over penetrate

Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways. Anything that will penetrate deeply enough to reliably stop a bad guy will also penetrate house walls. Bird shot will leave an ugly, but shallow wound that won't stop someone who is impervious to pain or just very determined.

[Chris C]

No matter what round you use, if you miss your target, it's going through the wall unless you hit something substantial.

And depending on the load it's going to go through even if you hit your target.

To a point I agree.  Even then something like 00 Buck as well as it works it's just going to keep going while a pistol or AR-15 with the correct round will penetrate less.  Some AR-15 rounds do more damage penetrating less than some pistol rounds because the second they hit something they start to tumble and loose energy quickly.  I can speak from personal experience shooting in an abandon house on private property that a .40S&W Golden Saber will go through a one wall a hollow door and stop in the second wall.  Speaking with a SWAT team member their AR-15 rounds don't have a problem over penetrating in structures. 

Here's another link with better spacing and different calibers.  http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/index.html

[farmerbob]

Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways. Anything that will penetrate deeply enough to reliably stop a bad guy will also penetrate house walls. Bird shot will leave an ugly, but shallow wound that won't stop someone who is impervious to pain or just very determined.

Over the years I've listened to a fair amount of talk about how effective bird shot is for self defense.

Up close and personal it can be very lethal, but it gets less effective rapidly with distance. Tom Gresham said at point blank range it can act much like a slug.

One Gun Talk show comes to mind, they were talking to a taxidermist from Alaska who had a bear brought into him that was shot and killed with one shot from bird shot, it was a self defense shooting at point blank range, and the bear had much of it's skull missing.

[Mntnman]

Bird shot will leave an ugly, but shallow wound that won't stop someone who is impervious to pain or just very determined.

Not at inside your house distances. There will be no putting Humpty back together again.

[jonm]

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/-Tacoma-man-shoots-would-be-burglar-in-the-face-159670015.html

"The man said he was inside his home, located in the area of South 14th Street and South Madison Street, at about 6 p.m. when he saw a burglar climbing in through a window, according to Mark Fulghum of the Tacoma Police Department.

The man called 911 to report the break in before grabbing a shotgun and shooting the man in the face.

The alleged burglar ran away, but didn't get far before collapsing. He was taken to St. Joseph Hospital to be treated for life-threatening injuries.

"He's got some very significant injuries, but he's expected to make a recovery," Fulghum said."

[jonm]

http://warriortimes.com/2011/06/26/uk-man-survives-shotgun-blast-by-attackers-at-his-door-armed-with-bird-shot/

“In December 2007, two men brandishing sawn-off shotguns opened fire on Mr Clarke when he answered the door of his home in Fairways, Consett, County Durham.
The steel or lead pellets entered his back, head and neck. He still managed to flee and only escaped possible death when a neighbour pulled him to safety inside their own home.”

[farmerbob]

There is a lot of variables besides distance. Gauge used from 10g. down to 410, 3/12 inch all the way down to trap loads and bird shot can run a wide spectrum depending on what your hunting geese and turkey down to quail or dove.

I bet if you stuck the barrel of a 12g up against a 2×4 with any bird shot load it would make splinters out of it.

[farmerbob]

Here is another bear story.


http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/field-notes/2013/11/grouse-hunter-kills-attacking-black-bear-birdshot

I think we all can agree bird shot is less than ideal for self protection but in a pinch it might be better than nothing and in the case of over penetration and collateral damage it might be something worth considering.

My nearest neighbor is over a mile away yet I like #4 shot over buck shot . I think it's more versatile.

[jonm]

I agree that birdshot is better than nothing, but why prepare for a shot that needs to be point blank to be effective? I also use #4 but its #4 buckshot.

[farmerbob]

One reason I don't use a shotgun for HD but I would be interested in spacing the walls out to simulate a real house.  Say 12' between the first and second wall.  Might make a little difference might not. 

Well hell, we were on the same page after all.

[jonm]

A test like this?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

[Mntnman]

jonm, I have heard of many people shot in the head and surviving, some with little or no permanent impairment. The article doesn't say if it was a glancing blow or not. The sawed of shotguns could have been 10 inches or less for all we know and we don't know how far away. The penetration test confirms my suspicions, little or no over penetration. Have you seen what a birdshot load will do to flesh at 10 feet? (no more than that likely in my house) I have, might as well be a slug.

Maybe we can get together for some real world testing. Not on each other!

[jonm]

With shotguns, velocity is not effected much by barrel length. Using birdshot, 120FPS difference going from a 12" to a 28" barrel
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/19103-barrel-length-vs-velocity/

Im always up to do some real world testing.

[SeanN]

Use birdshot for birds, clays, or steel targets.

Ballistic tests have shown us for decades that bird shot leaves gruesome but very shallow wounds. At any distance it's nothing like a slug. Watch ballistic gel being shot by a 12ga slug. The damage is ridiculous.

Far too often people worry more too much about overpenetration and not enough about stopping the threat.

Use buckshot. 00 preferred.

If it's effective for stopping bad guys its going to penetrate drywall.

[FarmerRick]

With shotguns, velocity is not effected much by barrel length. Using birdshot, 120FPS difference going from a 12" to a 28" barrel
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/19103-barrel-length-vs-velocity/

Im always up to do some real world testing.

I have found that at a distance of about 12-15 feet, #7 1/2 birdshot will not penetrate a 55 gallon barrel, and just makes a large dent. Anything #4 or larger will blast right through.