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Author Topic: Reducing/repealing the NFA?  (Read 3721 times)

Offline mott555

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Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« on: January 09, 2015, 09:42:12 AM »
Saw this on another forum and thought it might be worth some discussion.

Now that we supposedly have pro-gun GOP members in control of both houses of Congress, some people think we have a chance at getting a bill which repeals the National Firearms Act. Personally I think such bill wouldn't have a chance at passing (Oh no they're going to legalize machine guns!!!!!), but we could start small and repeal a couple smaller parts of the NFA. For example, removing restrictions on suppressors and SBRs seems like a logical starting point to me. It might be worth writing a letter to our representatives about this.

Thoughts?

Offline bullit

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2015, 10:17:46 AM »
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Please stop, my sides ache ....    one of those things I'd like to "eat crow" over, but ain't gonna happen with these quislings ....

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2015, 10:26:50 AM »
Yeah..... last time someone tried that we got 41P.... I think anything done with the NFA will be a KABOOM in the face!

Offline jonm

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2015, 11:27:45 AM »
people think the government is willing to give up free money?

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2015, 12:16:27 PM »
Until someone, probably many someones, is willing to go to prison, we are stuck with this lawlessness called NFA. A great deal of "pro-guns" folks aren't in full support of the second so nothing is going to change until they do. They are worse than the antis in my book because they see not what they do.

Offline RobertH

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2015, 03:48:08 PM »
i am all for it, but it will never happen.  too many stereotypes and stigmas attached to NFA firearms.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2015, 06:47:26 PM »
I think the best we can hope for in any reasonable amount of time is to have suppressors removed.  I don't see it happening though.

Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 08:00:15 PM »
In its first bout at the Supreme Court it should have been ruled unconstitutional then.  But for bad luck the defendant's attorney could not attend the final hearing.  But then everyone thought it would be a slam dunk anyway.

Seeing as how the SCOTUS found in that case, arms of a nature common to military service should not be restricted, I don't see how it still stands.  (Even though I think it doesn't matter what arms you are dealing with, the 2nd says nothing about military arms or hunting arms or knives or any class or design of "arm", taking it to mean ALL ARMS, but I digress)

The NFA was only a way to find work for the treasury guys laid off after the repeal of prohibition.

It has long since proved itself ineffective, unnecessary and burdensome.  It is simply an example of one of the taxes we fought a war over at one time.

ATF should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

But the chance of any congress having the testicular fortitude to rid the nation of either ATF or NFA is remote.  But it is worth a try.

Sissy boy has set a precedent, and if we ever get a real man for President again... there I go fantasizing again.

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Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 10:37:38 AM »
As I understand it, the concept of controling certain firearms came about from the crime of the time. The $200 fine was significant at the time to deter enthusiasts. These days $200 is not considered a huge obstacle...although the entire process is likely very costly.  My concern is that someone might try to make an inflation adjustment...making the "fine" very high and potentially add in other limitations (like "able to accept").

With the current social media availability, it could be possible to pull together a large enough force to push a positive result. But first that force would have to first be pulled together. The large three letter groups don't always seem to be in the best interest of gun owners at times.

The head shaking above demonstrates that it is not ready.

How do we create a solution?...has to start somewhere (better than already created).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:45:30 AM by SS_N_NE »

Offline mott555

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 11:36:46 AM »
I think the best we can hope for in any reasonable amount of time is to have suppressors removed.

Agreed, if we were to start anywhere this would be it.

I was researching suppressors as I've never used one before and couldn't believe what I found. I was aware of the NFA tax stamps, but the wait times are ridiculous. Not to mention if you travel interstate. For most NFA items you have to ask the ATF permission to leave state with the item, and you have to give them the address of where you're going. Apparently this is not required for suppressors, but it's recommended to do it anyway in case you're stopped because most LEO's don't realize suppressors are exempt.

The only word I can think of to describe all that is infringement.

Offline jonm

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 06:33:43 PM »
you dont ask permission to travel with NFA items, you inform BATFE  you are doing it.

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 08:53:37 PM »
I recently contacted the game and parks about the power factor requirements for hunting. When discussing the subject with the law enforcement division the man I was speaking with did not know anything bout the NFA. He asked me when the subject of sbr and cans if it was easy to get them. He seemed surprised that people could and would get them and had no clue how to get them.  I know they are not your normal LEO but I would think there job would have more encounters with weapons then many others divisions of law enforcement.

I can see suppressor being dropped maybe SBR but not shotguns. It's to easy for a gang banger to steal and cut down with a hack saw.....


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Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 10:25:23 PM »
We dont have a super-majority in either houses, and after a veto from his highness all that effort would die in the cold and dark of someone's desk.  Nice idea though it might be, in the current political climate it just wont happen.  There are better places to put the $$$ and effort, like national reciprocity.

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Offline NENick

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 09:00:14 AM »
I recently contacted the game and parks about the power factor requirements for hunting. When discussing the subject with the law enforcement division the man I was speaking with did not know anything bout the NFA. He asked me when the subject of sbr and cans if it was easy to get them. He seemed surprised that people could and would get them and had no clue how to get them.  I know they are not your normal LEO but I would think there job would have more encounters with weapons then many others divisions of law enforcement.

I can see suppressor being dropped maybe SBR but not shotguns. It's to easy for a gang banger to steal and cut down with a hack saw.....


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Is it not easy for gang bangers to hack down shotguns with the regulations enforced as they are now? 

Offline jonm

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2015, 09:07:30 AM »
you can also cut down a rifle with relative ease.

Offline tstuart34

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 09:50:05 AM »

you can also cut down a rifle with relative ease.

Your right. Just my opinion on the subject.

Unless a huge group goes after the NFA as one I think it's going to get worse. There will more regulations put in place. I'm not for the NFA right now but I could be made a lot worse if not done properly.


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Offline tstuart34

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2015, 09:54:36 AM »

Is it not easy for gang bangers to hack down shotguns with the regulations enforced as they are now?

They can and will. That's why I don't think you will see them removed. It's a easy charge to throw on people and its a "problem" they don't give a rats ass about legally owned items they look at the statics that show how many inter city killings are done.


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Offline tstuart34

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2015, 10:01:15 AM »

How do we create a solution?...has to start somewhere (better than already created).

Starting locally would be the best thing I think.  Getting more states to no recognize the NFA Kansas and several other states have passed laws disregard the NFA with some items. To me this is the place to start...


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Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2015, 11:53:39 AM »
We dont have a super-majority in either houses, and after a veto from his highness all that effort would die in the cold and dark of someone's desk.  Nice idea though it might be, in the current political climate it just wont happen.  There are better places to put the $$$ and effort, like national reciprocity.

Ron

That's right. Folks can talk about this all they want but it won't be an initiative in the next two years.  There are other planks in the platform and if the Republicans are playing to win in the next two years, rather than a couple short-term gains, the focus is on winning the White House and keeping or building the majority on the Hill. We're a heartbeat away from losing a conservative majority in the SCOTUS with the wrong party in the White House. With a 2016 win we're on the cusp of solidifying the majority nicely.

Energy independence and immigration reform are honestly bigger issues right now, both for your Joe Average voter, and in terms of national / personal security. We are pumping money into parts of the world that in turn pump immigrants into our country who don't give a flip about the liberties and freedoms we were founded on. In fact find those liberties antithetical to their "religion" to the point that they will murder the hand that feeds them. We need to change course now before we become France. 

Health care is the other big issue in the next two years. Some of my less politically savvy friend who weren't paying attention a coupe years ago are now tearing their hair out wondering how their premiums tripled in price. The Republicans need to bury the White House with legislation and make him veto every solution to day-to-day problems all voters are facing. The "do nothing congress" needs to show everyone that he's really a "do nothing president".

The most important thing we can do to affect RKBA long-term prospects in the meantime? Take a newbie shooting every month. Keep building on the huge surge of popularity in the shooting sports and responsible gun ownership.  Mention casually at work how you and the missus are going to the shooting range for date night.  And if you're in the training business already, maybe give or raffle off a few training classes to demographic groups that aren't mainstream gun collectors / shooters. By just talking about the subject rationally at work I've turned a couple people on to the hobby in the last couple years who were probably already curious but didn't know how to get started. One of my former bosses, a single older lady, surprised me in how interested she was; then another colleague took her shooting and before you know it she bought an SR-22 and was itching to buy something else.

All the research studies from Pew, etc, show that there was a real change in attitude and gun ownership in the last couple years, in a pro-gun direction.  It's actually very easy right at this time to make the tie-died anti-gun crowd continually marginalized and irrelevant. Facts are not in their side, only emotion.  Just keep kicking them while they are down and bring more and more shooters into the fold, and the long term prospects will look good.
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Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Reducing/repealing the NFA?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2015, 05:43:29 PM »
Is it not easy for gang bangers to hack down shotguns with the regulations enforced as they are now?     

This is where I have a problem with legislation. It is assumed that removing certain types of firearms will reduce crime. The fact that commiting crime is unlawful gets clouded by the use of a firearm to commit that crime. Possibly removing the commonality of certain firearms moves them more out of reach of the criminals but doesn't eliminate some firearms (like sawing off a barrel). The criminals continue to get certain types of firearms and saw off barrels. Law-abiding citizens are denied freedom because of a few criminals. The laws do not work. The expensive government entities (BATFE) do not have a reasonable ROI (return on investment). Any effective business realizing an ineffective ROI would eliminate that loss...but not our Government.