Signs prohibiting carry, how vague can they be?

[kracin]

There are plenty of businesses that have no firearms,  no guns, guns not allowed, the gun with a slashed circle sub, etc. But what about ones who just put up a "no weapons of any kind". Does this satisfy the state statute on conspicuous signage stating no guns for concealed carriers? Or does this only apply to their company policy of hopefully keeping hooligans with knives away?

[barmandr]

Not sure how/why you'd consider "No Weapons of Any Kind" to be vague.  Nebraska has no requirement regarding the use of any kind of standardized signage type/style business owners are to use.  As long as the "No Weapons of any Kind" sign meets the other requirements for a business to be deemed "posted", then that sign carries the weight of law.

[GreggL]

Addressing the flip side of the issue, do the official looking signs that specifically prohibit concealed carry
also restrict open carry? I've read the small print on the signs and they don't seem to address open carry.
I typically just try to avoid doing business in the stores that post such signs.

I've also seen signs that prohibit weapons except for CCW permit holders, which I think is a move in the right direction.

Any clarification on this will be appreciated. Thanks.

[belfarmer]

There are places like the Gateway Mall in Lincoln that only have signage on the side wall of the entry points.  There is a plaque that is titled rules of conduct and something like #16 is no weapons except for law enforcement.  I almost think that this is next to entrapment.  There is no sign on the entry doors. 

[Mudinyeri]

It just depends on how willing you are to participate in a lawsuit if you're caught.

[Dan W]

[kracin]

Not sure how/why you'd consider "No Weapons of Any Kind" to be vague.  Nebraska has no requirement regarding the use of any kind of standardized signage type/style business owners are to use.  As long as the "No Weapons of any Kind" sign meets the other requirements for a business to be deemed "posted", then that sign carries the weight of law.

"has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permitholder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises."

because the laws state specifically about prohibiting carrying of a concealed handgun. and saying weapons in general can mean anything that can be a weapon. a purse with a heavy enough object in it is a weapon, a pen is a weapon, a knife under 3" is a weapon. etc.

only a gun is a gun, and there are specific no firearms/no guns signs as well.

thats why i mean it's vague, because it doesn't use the same wordage that the laws do when talking about prohibiting. and laws can be interpreted many different ways.

[Mali]

has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permitholder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises."

because the laws state specifically about prohibiting carrying of a concealed handgun. and saying weapons in general can mean anything that can be a weapon. a purse with a heavy enough object in it is a weapon, a pen is a weapon, a knife under 3" is a weapon. etc.

only a gun is a gun, and there are specific no firearms/no guns signs as well.

thats why i mean it's vague, because it doesn't use the same wordage that the laws do when talking about prohibiting. and laws can be interpreted many different ways.

I think you would find it difficult to win an legal argument regarding this being vague as a gun is legally a weapon and thus the sign prohibits firearms as well as the litany of other items including my pocket knife I always carry.
In all honesty, I have no problem with them telling me that since I will just turn around and go somewhere else if I can.  If I can't then I will begrudgingly disarm. They have the legal right to tell me I can't carry in their facility, but I have the legal right to sue them for failing to protect me if something happens. I may not win, but I will give it a run and force the discussion regarding the ramifications of posting your facility.

[JTH]

because the laws state specifically about prohibiting carrying of a concealed handgun. and saying weapons in general can mean anything that can be a weapon. a purse with a heavy enough object in it is a weapon, a pen is a weapon, a knife under 3" is a weapon. etc.

Not according to the law, they aren't.  There are legal definitions of "weapons".  In those laws and definitions, there are some gray areas, but most are quite clear--and for the ones that aren't clear, it is up to the person complaining to prove it.

[hilowe]

Not according to the law, they aren't.  There are legal definitions of "weapons".  In those laws and definitions, there are some gray areas, but most are quite clear--and for the ones that aren't clear, it is up to the person complaining to prove it.

If I remember correctly, unless the city you're in has a different definition, by state law, a knife with a blade under 3 1/2" is not considered a weapon.

Hence, the reason I have my quick open with a 3 1/4" blade on me most of the time.

[Mali]

If I remember correctly, unless the city you're in has a different definition, by state law, a knife with a blade under 3 1/2" is not considered a weapon.

Hence, the reason I have my quick open with a 3 1/4" blade on me most of the time.

I had forgotten about the length limit.  I can now relax about my less than 3.5" knife.

[Dan W]

unless the city you're in has a different definition, by state law, a knife with a blade under 3 1/2" is not considered a weapon.

Hastings has a 3" limit

[wcr]

The lack of state reciprocity is a problem here.  In Lincoln it's the auto knife in Hastings its the length.  We need a common set of state level weapon laws.  How is one expected to know what other towns might have their own codes.  I would hate to loose my CCP for carrying a knife that is of legal length in 99% of the state.  I have seen 3.5 inches mentioned many times here, but how many knew about the Hastings Code. 

The Hastings City Code
21-101.
Carrying concealed weapons.
No person in the City shall wear under his or her clothes, or conceal about his or her person, or display in a threatening manner, any dangerous or deadly weapon including, including  but not limited to, any pistol, revolver, sling shot, cross-knuckles or  knuckles of lead, brass or other metal, or any bowie knife, or any knife resembling a bowie knife, or any knife with a switch-blade or device whereby the blade or blades can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle or other mechanical contrivance, or a pocket knife having a blade of more than three inches in length.  No thing in this section shall prohibit the carrying of a concealed handgun in a manner otherwise consistent with
Neb. Rev. St. §  69-2427 et. seq., known as the Concealed Handgun Permit Act or 18 United States Code 926, known as the Law Enforcement Officer’s
Safety Act.
(Code 1973, 39-1; Ord. No. 1750 and 4222-5/2009)

[hilowe]

The lack of state reciprocity is a problem here.  In Lincoln it's the auto knife in Hastings its the length.  We need a common set of state level weapon laws.  How is one expected to know what other towns might have their own codes.  I would hate to loose my CCP for carrying a knife that is of legal length in 99% of the state.  I have seen 3.5 inches mentioned many times here, but how many knew about the Hastings Code. 

The Hastings City Code
21-101.
Carrying concealed weapons.
No person in the City shall wear under his or her clothes, or conceal about his or her person, or display in a threatening manner, any dangerous or deadly weapon including, including  but not limited to, any pistol, revolver, sling shot, cross-knuckles or  knuckles of lead, brass or other metal, or any bowie knife, or any knife resembling a bowie knife, or any knife with a switch-blade or device whereby the blade or blades can be opened by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle or other mechanical contrivance, or a pocket knife having a blade of more than three inches in length.  No thing in this section shall prohibit the carrying of a concealed handgun in a manner otherwise consistent with
Neb. Rev. St. §  69-2427 et. seq., known as the Concealed Handgun Permit Act or 18 United States Code 926, known as the Law Enforcement Officer’s
Safety Act.
(Code 1973, 39-1; Ord. No. 1750 and 4222-5/2009)

I will admit that I did not.  I knew it was a possibility, but was only really worried about Omaha and the surrounding towns when I was looking into this a while back.

Thankfully, I have not been to Hastings (at least not since high school), so I have not knowingly violated this law yet.