Insurance?

[Ronvandyn]

My father heard that I was soon to have my CCW and sent the link below to me.  I do not know if this is a legitimate company, but its an interesting idea.  Your thoughts?

http://mmdbrokers.com/

[bullit]

Legitimate site.  Also, check your auto policy company (yes, your auto policy) for a personal umbrella.  $1-3M is about the same price, and most will cover you for the same issue in the civilian arena. 
Also, consider joining The Armed Citizens Defense Network.

[LawyerJan]

Note that the insurance is only available AZ, CO, LA, NM & TX.  If you find somebody doing business in Nebraska be sure to let us all know.

[Ronvandyn]

OK, help me out here Jan.  This particular insurance provider, or any policy of this type?  

Point being, I am not made of money, and until / unless the castle doctrine bill gets passed then this type of service would not only be a money make for the insurance company but could also provide a great deal of peace of mind for those of us who carry.  We have all heard the stories about a criminal suing a home owner for tripping and injuring themselves while committing a crime, I cant imagine how bad it would be if I was forced to shoot someone (even if I am totally in the right) and get sued by the little )*(%$# or his/her family for defending myself.

Ron

[bullit]

As previously mentioned.......ARMED CITIZENS DEFENSE NETWORK....$85/YR.  Benefits include immediate $5K to your attorney for preliminary investigation, etc.  They are currently building an overall defense fund (stands at $30K) now to defend a righteous shoot.  They will review and provide court recognized expert witness testimony (Ayoob, Hayes, Farnam et al.)

In regards to a civil suit which seems to be your biggest concern (you mention in your last sentence)....this is where a personal umbrella liability policy comes into play.  This is the same type of policy that kicks in should you be underinsured in a car wreck, some idiots falls off your porch and is paralyzed, etc.  It will provide for you in a civil suit should you be found innocent in a criminal court.  It is written standard in most policies.  An example....I have one for $3M.  Costs me under $400 per year.  Covers me and my dependants.

[son of liberty]

wow! insurance specificaly for self defence minded people who legally carry! i never knew such a thing existed. i would be interested in looking into that armed citizens defence network. where can i contact them at?

[Ronvandyn]

I checked with my insurance agent yesterday concerning this.  State Farm does not appear to have a specific policy for this type of thing, but he was pretty sure that my renters insurance had a $300k liability clause for this catagory of thing no matter where one is.  On the street, in the home, downtown.  

It was the first time anyone had asked him about this, and he of course had quite a few questions for me.  I was not impressed by his answers or his questions, and the idea that there is a form of general coverage under my renters without something specific worries me.  My guess is that it is not specifically written into the policy and therefore gives the insurance company a wide area in which to wiggle out of any claim that I may be forced to make.  

The ACDN sounds like a plan, but I remember hearing about a woman who got $10million plus for spilling coffee on herself.  How much do you think an "out-of-control" jury would award someone for being shot?  I think the $3million coverage is a much better option, but the policy is a bit pricy.  Anyone else have a policy they can tell us about?  Options are a good thing, and I'd like to have some.  Thanks!

Ron

[bullit]

www.armedcitizensnetwork.com

Nebraska has a Tort Limit.  I believe $1.7M.  Any attorneys please correct me.

I would consider a new insurance agent, as well.  Personal Liability Umbrella Policy is what you specifically want.  They typically are an addition to your AUTO policy.  However, they would apply in a self-defense righteous shoot.  Mine is through Allied/Nationwide.  I will verify later on and post.  Specifically addresses in the policy i.e. did not ask for it.

[Southern Guy]

bullit, your statement about personal umbrella policies covering you for lethal force is not entirely accurate, although Allied?s Umbrella give the most generous language I have been able to find. Not all Umbrella Policies are created equal. Also Allied doesn?t offer any Uninsured/Underinsured coverage through their umbrella yet even though they need to because other carries already do. You have a good policy, plus your thinking in the right direction.

Guys this is where you got to make your agent show it to you in writing. Yes, Excess Liability or Umbrella policy are a good thing to have and everyone should have one, as bullit stated above. Some free advice is to go to the exclusion part of your Umbrella policy. The problem arises out of the "Intended and Expected (sometimes unexpected) ? acts that cause bodily injury and property damage (see your definitions for BI) are excluded. Now some policy have some sort of what is called give backs, meaning they take it away but give it back later in the policy. I have seen some companies only give back for reasonable assault or battery acts to protect one's person or property(P&P). I have seen reasonable acts to protect one's P&P. And yes bullit, Allied uses the best terminology I have found because theirs say reasonable force to protect one's P&P. And it seems LE always talk in terms of force continuums.

Now that said I seriously doubt anyone will have a judgment go against them, but it is the attorney fees that is the scariest. Sad thing is that allot of these home invasions are done by rich kids.  Myself personally I will try to find the best attorney possible but I could see myself wiping out my saving and a 2nd mortgage just to make sure I am able to tuck my kids in every night. Because I am trying fend off Mommy/Daddy Mega-bucks civil suit. Even though the Umbrella policy may pay for judgments doesn?t mean they will pay for defense, because they know there is almost a zero chance you would loose other wise they would settle through arbitration. Lets face it insurance companies are not going to spend money if they feel they need to and if you have a true righteous shooting you will not loose in civil court. Some companies writing (you will find it at the front of your policy) say it is at their discretion to step in.

[LawyerJan]

Ron:

The link you found basically explains what I was thinking, the company has to be authorized to sell insurance in this state.  By clicking the "all other states" link it has the name of a Nebraska agent, so the MMD Broker's policy should work here.

I have not researched the company however, and my comments here are not an endorsement of the policy or company.

You should obtain a sample copy of an Umbrella policy and compare the coverage.  If the umbrella covers CCW defense, then the umbrella and the Defense Fund program would probably be a better deal since the umbrella would cover other claims besides shoots.

[tut]

Armed Citizens Defense Network at $85/yr is the best idea here so far, IMHO.  

However, wouldn't a local and successful civil (not a defense) attorney on a yearly retainer, with you having his/her 24-hr available cell number, be a good idea?

I picked up that last paragraph in one of the gun rags I subscribed to, wasn't my idea.  The author pointed out the difference between a defense attorney who might be known for taking slimeball cases and a civil attorney who is not only skilled in the courtroom but does not have the stigma of trying to defend a littany of past "slimmy" types...

Whatcha think?

[RLMoeller]

You are on the right track.  An attorney known for representing the good guys is what you want.  Who represents the police officers?

[Ronvandyn]

You are on the right track.  An attorney known for representing the good guys is what you want.  Who represents the police officers?

I dont know if that is the best way to go.  Some LEO's are rabid anti-CCW folks, they are few but they are out there.

Ron

[RLMoeller]

It isn't about the cops or their views.  It is about how the attorney that represents cops is viewed by the district attorney and the court system.

[Southern Guy]

Ok, I have been diving into the MMD Brokers, the NRA's  policy and been putting together options. Does anyone know the cap the "Armed Citizens Defense Network" places on amount of dispersement. I see they will give $5000 right away. But what is the max and will they pay a judgement in civil if awarded or does that come out of your pocket?

I know people see $$$ and some sort of coverage and stop right there, if it is cheaper, but there is a reason. Regardless something is better than nothing.

[AAllen]

FORSYTH INSURANCE AGENCY, INC. of Lincoln is the local agent for the MMD Brokers Concealed Carry Liability Coverage.  They have been given the OK to start a thread in the Classified section where we invite you folks to ask your questions of them.  This is not an endorsement of this product, but a chance for all of us to become familiar with it and learn about a category of coverage that those of us interested in self defense should understand.

[bullit]

ACDN does not pay out on a judgement.  They are simply providing funds to members as part of their defense in a righteous shoot.