open carry in churches?

[depserv]

What is state law regarding open carry in churches, with the permission of the church leadership? 

Is it illegal to open carry in a church in Omaha by someone who does not have a permit?  I believe it is but want to be sure.  Does this illegality apply to long guns and handguns both, or can a long gun be carried legally in a church in Omaha, by a designated security person (or persons) for example?

I'm asking because there is always a possibility of copycat crimes, and the liberal cult has been waging massive hate campaigns, which seem to be bearing fruit.  Is there a way an Omaha church can have armed security if no one in that church has a permit to carry?  The permit to carry takes time to get is why I want to know.   Those with permits to carry might be gone for the next two Sundays because of deer season, leaving only those without such permits (depending on the size of the church of course).

[SemperFiGuy]

OK:  Not an Attorney Here.  (Just a Fairly Honest Engineering Professor, FWIW)  So I'm speaking in legal generalities as a quasi-informed citizen.

Let's talk Omaha first.   Because Omaha MuniCode requires either the Handgun Identification Card (HIC/Open Carry Permit) or CHP for OC.

However, NE CHP can't be used for individual OC in Omaha churches, because NE CHP rules prohibit individual CHP holders from carrying in churches (unless explicitly permitted by pastor as part of an authorized security team.)

Next, HIC OC in Omaha churches:  Not aware of any express prohibition, Omaha Municode, or State Statute.   (Doesn't mean none such exists.)

However, OC in ANY Church, not just Omaha, will probably draw a Great Deal of Entirely Unwanted Attention.  Attendees have cell phones, especially in church.   During the sermon, especially.   Now, go to church (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs .  Maybe a Whole SWAT Team.

Expect to have to eat dirt.  Figger that the OC person may get shot.   And killed.  (Like the Entirely Legal CCW guy at the mall in Vegas few years ago.  Cops got off OK, of course.   C'mon.......the EL-CCW GUY REACHED INTO HIS WAISTBAND!!!!!!!!  cops said.)   Surely must be some overarching Federal Code against Waistbands, Reaching In:  Hands  (Left, Right, or Both).

FWIW -  Even my Hillbilly Relatives back in SE Missouri left their rifles in the buckboard when attending church.   No handguns anywhere; not any good for squirrel shootin'.  Or settlin' feuds on the way back home after church.
----------------------------------------------------------
Now, OC in churches, rest of Nebraska:  In the Immortal Words of DanW, whom I revere for his long support of NFOA and his excellent trapshooting abilities, there are no laws directly governing OC in Nebraska.   Therefore, anything not expressly prohibited is implicitly permitted.

However:  Once again, walk around (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs.   Who May Shoot You.

The above narrative constitutes my 1-cents worth.   Not really worth a full 2 cent$.
----------------------------------------------------------

Wotcha might do is contact your Pastor in the light of all recent church shootings.   Make him aware of Section 018.03 of NAC 272, Section 21 and offer to help him set up a Concealed Carry Permit holder security squad for your own church.

I just did.

Cordially,

sfg

[Range Mom]

SemperFi,  some great points there

Adding a few cents... One of the things I am aware of is that you can take the Concealed Carry Course, receive your certificate from the class and then use that certificate to apply for the Open Carry Permit (whether or not you finalize getting the Concealed Carry Permit).  That is how the city addressed how one can get the OCP when the classes for that particular permit were no longer offered.

If you are open carrying, whether or not you have the CHP, you are open carrying. I believe that CHP restrictions do not apply to you when you are open carrying.  That is why I could open carry at our rally.  We were not 100% sure that it would be deemed a political event (which is why we erred on the side of caution and didn't encourage concealed, but open carry).  Looking at your statement as your interpretation of the CHP statute: "However, NE CHP can't be used for individual OC in Omaha churches, because NE CHP rules prohibit individual CHP holders from carrying in churches." A CHP holder is held to the CHP rules no matter the form in which they carry, which would have made my open carrying an issue at the rally. Additionally, we open carried at the NFOA-PAF fundraiser event, which absolutely was a political event, and the majority that attended, that open carried are CHP holders.

This would be really important to know for sure... Obviously CHP statute prevents concealed carry in churches. But if you are not concealed carrying, does it also apply?  So someone who is absolutely confident on that matter, please add your input to this conversation and the basis for it (especially if you have a reliable reference to point to)

If you are going to ask your church, in advance, to open carry, then I would recommend your church announcing that open carry is permitted and maybe even post that notification where parishioners can see it. I have open carried in multiple cities and standard venues without the response you described.  Matter of fact, I open carried at our event on the steps of the Unicameral for our 2A rally, held a great conversation with members of the Nebraska State Patrol before it started, and it was as casual and relaxed.  I have never been accosted by LEOs in any way, nor do the other routine open carriers I know.  Totally understand your point of view/preference/caution and advice and I respect it, but my experience differs.  To each their own

[hilowe]

Now, OC in churches, rest of Nebraska:  In the Immortal Words of DanW, whom I revere for his long support of NFOA and his excellent trapshooting abilities, there are no laws directly governing OC in Nebraska.   Therefore, anything not expressly prohibited is implicitly permitted.

However:  Once again, walk around (a) with no uniform of any kind and (b) a handgun visible at the hip, then clearly expect to meet with at least two lethally armed and excited LEOs.   Who May Shoot You.

The above narrative constitutes my 1-cents worth.   Not really worth a full 2 cent$.

One caveat to the rest of Nebraska is the wonderful city of Blair.  No open carry per city ordinance.  No if's, and's, or but's is my understanding.

[SemperFiGuy]

Trish...................

...my experience differs.  To each their own...

We speak the same language.   Same Tribal Dialect, actually.

sfg

[NE Bull]

Matter of fact, I open carried at our event on the steps of the Unicameral for our 2A rally, held a great conversation with members of the Nebraska State Patrol before it started, and it was as casual and relaxed. 

While not pertinent to the discussion here, I will say, as I watched the crowd from my vantage point (I had my reasons), I did notice the officer was actively taking stock of each individual carrying a firearm, and as new folks arrived, he would work his way around to visually check them.  Not saying it was right or wrong, or otherwise, just what I witnessed.

Now pertinent to the discussion here, this is the conundrum we face with 1) being held to a different (high or low depends how you look at it) by purchasing our right to carry (concealed) back from the state.  CHP means this, but does it mean that if I OC?  2) OC being legal by way of the law of Liberty, it leaves much to be open to interpretation, BUT should we ask for clarification from the state,then it becomes "Allowed by law", "with certain restrictions" inevitably added by clause, that we no long hold Liberty in hand.  "Freedom" delegated to us by way of a governing body, is NOT the same as Liberty.

[NE Bull]

Oh how things change with time:
LAWS OF VIRGINIA,
FEBRUARY, 1631-2 - 7th CHARLES 1st.

ACT XLVII.   
      NOE man shall goe or send abroade without a sufficient party well armed.   
ACT XLVIII.
      NOE man shall goe to worke in the grounds without theire armes, and a centinell uppon them.
ACT XLIX.
      THERE shall be due watch kept by night where neede required.
ACT L.
      NOE commander of any plantation, shall either himselfe or suffer others to spend powder unnecessarilie, that is to say, in dringinge or enterteynments.
ACT LI.
      ALL men that are fittinge to beare armes, shall bringe their peices to the church uppon payne of every effence, yf the mayster allow not thereof to pay 2 lb. of tobacco, to be disposed by the church-wardens, who shall levy it by distress, and the servants to be punished.

ACT LVI.
      IT is ordered and appoynted, That the comanders of all the several plantations, doe upon holy days exercise the men under his comand, and that the comanders yearlie doe likewise uppon the first day of December, take a muster of theire men, togeather with the women and children, and theire ages, countryes, and towns, where they were borne, with the shipps they came in, and the yeare of the Lord, as also of armes and munition, corne, cattle, hoggs, goates, barques, boates, gardens, and orchards, and yf they shall make default, to be censured by the Governor and Counsell.

[Range Mom]

Trish...................

We speak the same language.   Same Tribal Dialect, actually.

sfg

Have to say ... I really love that! 

[StuartJ]

I can see how open carrying into a church you're not know at could result in meeting with LEO. If you are a member, attend regularly, the pastor, the elders and most of the congregation knows you it it still going to be a problem?

If I was going to do it I'd talk to my pastor first.

And those cell phones in church should be off.

I have a cousin in Missouri who is always armed even in church during family weddings and funerals (the only times I eve see him). I know because he open carries. My guess would be that he has a concealed backup too. And probably a knife in his boot. When asked "Why do you carry a gun to a family gathering?" His answer will be "the first rule of a gun fight is have a gun".