Author Topic: Another "What if....?" (Read 5684 times)

2 E L O · « **on:** June 04, 2010, 12:12:20 PM »

Ok, I have a CCW permit and live in Omaha... I'll keep this question short and sweet.

If I have a weapon with me but want to go into a bar and have a beer or two (and don't have the option to return the gun home to it's safe), what is the best procedure to store the gun in the vehicle while I'm away? Typically when visiting a place that I can't carry I just lock the loaded gun in the glove box. Is this permissible if I've had a beer or I'm at a bar?

What's the best procedure for having a gun in the vehicle while I'm driving if I have had a beer or two (but still below the legal limit to drive)? I have an SUV so there is no actual trunk.

I searched and couldn't find answers to this specific issue.

Jesse T · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2010, 12:18:17 PM »

If it was me, I would say locked case, unloaded, in the back. Although technically I don't think there is a law that says if you're drinking you can't open carry...

2 E L O · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2010, 01:49:18 PM »

So.....does my CCW permit allow me to open carry in Omaha or is the OHP required?

Ronvandyn · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2010, 02:59:15 PM »

If you are a CCW holder then there is no need to have an Omaha OHP, but as it stands right this moment the weapon must be registered in Omaha.

Ron

AAllen · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2010, 06:34:24 PM »

Also OPD considers a gun laying on the dash to be concealed.

Dan W · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2010, 06:58:11 PM »

The regulations of the Nebraska CHP do not allow you to conceal carry with ANY alcohol in your system. That would include locked in the glovebox. In Omaha that would probably also include anywhere inside the passenger compartment within reach. In an SUV, a lock box in a rear compartment might suffice.

Your only good option is locked in the trunk, unloaded , seperate from the ammuntion as the federal safe passage laws require.

NE Bull · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2010, 07:12:20 PM »

Not to be a prude :angel1:, but since I got my permit, I have chosen to partake in any adult beverages only in my own home and only if I don't plan on leaving the house anytime soon. But that's just my choice. I did the bar scene and outgrew it I guess. I also wouldn't feel safe leaving such an estalishment late at night without protection.

Well I guess another factor would be that the only time I go out is with my kids, and I've also made a rule not to drink around them. Like I said, these are just my choices, but something to think about.

David Hineline · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2010, 10:29:14 PM »

I would say your drinking is causing you a problem. You have a decision to make.

2 E L O · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2010, 09:17:57 AM »

Please spare me the holier than thou alcohol pep talks, that's not what I was concerned about here. I'm 25, unmarried, no kids, so stopping at the bar on the way home from work once a month with my boss or a coworker for one or two beers does not mean I have a problem or that alcohol is causing me problems.

There are plenty of times that I'm carrying and choose not to have a drink and it's not an issue, but there are other times that I'd really like to go sit and BS with my coworkers or my boss at the bar for a half hour after work on some random day once every month or two. They're usually random, spur of the moment gatherings after a rough day in the office or after sending out a big project.

I'll just plan on getting a TSA lockbox for the cargo area and locking up the firearm separate from the ammunition. Thank you to all that helped. I appreciate your input.

Wilson · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2010, 12:17:58 PM »

What if...we could find a knowledgeable person from the Nebraska State Patrol to participate in a special Q & A forum to answer questions like these. I think it would be a great avenue for the State Patrol to connect with the NFOA. I would help find that person.

While I greatly appreciate the knowledge base of the forum leadership, I believe it would be an added dimension to the depth of the conversations.

I have a bunch of "what ifs" to ask

like, "Where does open carry become concealed carry?" If my XD40 is in the rear jeans pocket with the handle showing, is that open or concealed? I would not carry that way but you get the idea.

FarmerRick · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2010, 12:51:30 PM »

I'm pretty sure no one was trying to be "holier than thou".

I'm also about 99% sure the NSP will not give legal opinions here on the NFOA forum, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

NE Bull · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2010, 02:20:49 PM »

*DING* Idea just hit me, and yes it kinda hurt.

How about working a Q and A session with NE State Patrol into the get-together in September?

And I hope I didn't come off Holy n all, just thought I'd throw my $ .02 in. I guess what I forgot to put across is that with some of the Ego-trip officers out there, I just don't want to give them a chance to disarm you/me.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2010, 11:21:31 PM »

This 'Un's for Wilson, in Response to His Inquiry:

Open Carry: Any generally recognizable part of the pistol must be visible and in plain sight at all times.

Concealed Carry: The handgun is totally hidden from view. No part of the pistol may be capable of being seen. If the lady behind you in the supermarket line can look into your pocket and see the grip or backstrap of your Ruger LCP, it isn't concealed any more.

In the case of Open Carry, the carrier can't show the side of the slide through a 1/4" diameter hole and say that it's open carry. Gotta be a generally recognizable portion of the handgun.

In the case of Concealed Carry, can't show Anything on the handgun to the Naked Eye. Nuthin'. All of the handgun must be covered at All Times. So---What about Printing?? Well, with a fully covered handgun which prints through fabric, the handgun is actually concealed, per the definition. But just don't get an LEO involved if you can help it, because from there on in, the situation is unstable and subject to the untidiness of human nature.

When you start dealing with LEOs, prosecutors, lawyers, judges and so forth, all you can really say is that it all starts to cost. Time and Money. Your Time. Your Money.

sfg

mizzly · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2010, 11:53:50 PM »

Quote from: Ronvandyn on June 04, 2010, 02:59:15 PM

If you are a CCW holder then there is no need to have an Omaha OHP, but as it stands right this moment the weapon must be registered in Omaha.

Ron

I hope you are talking about Omaha residents needing to register there weapons & not visitors from other counties & states?

AAllen · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2010, 09:37:00 AM »

Omaha's ordinace requires everyone to register, even visitors passing through. After the passage of LB817 the City Attorney said he would not press charges against anyone with a CCW, but the law is still on the books and you are open to the OPD checking you out.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2010, 01:39:47 PM »

Actually, Federal law Title 18 USC, Ch. 44, para. 926A trumps all other state and local laws with respect to transporting a firearm. That Federal law allows unimpeded transport of an unloaded firearm for any lawful purpose from one place of lawful possession to another such place, provided it's stashed in the automobile trunk, or otherwise inaccessible from the passenger compartment.

So---No Trunk? Like an SUV?? Then you Gotta lock it up in a closed case, unloaded, with ammo and firearm stored separately. Otherwise, some LEO will tell the prosecutor that the full magazine laying next to the empty firearm constitutes a loaded firearm. And the judge might just believe it.

And further, in-transit storage is definitely NOT allowed by means of the glove box. [A specific line-item No-No.]

Now--that particular Federal law should allow anyone not living in Omaha, but just passing through, to effect passage unimpeded.

Provided...............A Whole Bunch of Other Stuff:

>What's the purpose for transporting the firearm?? To deliver it for sale in a non-contiguous state?? Oops! Requires FFL transfer. Not legal.

>Suppose an official considers your storage unit to be a "glove box". After all, you could put gloves in there. There's room. Behind the pistol.

>So--you say you put the firearm in the console, not the glove box. Too bad. Console = Glove Box.

>Must that firearm be registered in the location from whence departed?? Like some gun-hating city in Illinois?? Was it?? Uh-oh!!!

>Was ownership of the firearm illegal from the place you left?? Or the place you're going?? Gotcha!!

>And on and on and on. Sometimes a guy wonders how many firearms laws he's breaking at all levels, just by quietly sitting there, admiring his guns.

sfg

Dan W · « **Reply #16 on:** June 08, 2010, 07:08:43 PM »

SemperFiGuy, can you cite the law for your definition of open carry?

Either a handgun is openly carried, or concealed.

If..."No part of the pistol may be capable of being seen" ( your definition) defines concealed, then if any part of the pistol IS capable of being seen it is not concealed.

I am not sure where you get the "generally recognizable part" and "must be in plain sight" requirements. Both defy the statutory definition of a concealed handgun being
"If any part of the handgun is capable of being seen, it is not a concealed handgun;"

Here is the statute:

69-2429. Terms, defined.

For purposes of the Concealed Handgun Permit Act:

(1) Concealed handgun means the handgun is totally hidden from view. If any part of the handgun is capable of being seen, it is not a concealed handgun;

As far as I know Open carry is not defined in Nebraska statutes.

Husker_Fan · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2010, 09:21:42 AM »

SemperFiGuy,
Without looking, I think you are referring to the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA). That only applies if you are traveling interstate. For example, if I live in Wisconsin (where it is legal to have a handgun) and want to travel to Indiana (where it is also legal) I have to go through Illinois. If I do not stop (except for gas perhaps), and have the gun unloaded, cased, and stored as described in the federal law, I am good to drive through Illinois without an Illinois firearm owners permit. This doesn't affect the situation of a Nebraska permit holder in Nebraska.

My understanding of Nebraska law is once you take a drink your CHP is of no use. It's like you don't have one, except you still can't invoke the affirmative defense for carrying concealed. At that point, I think any legal firearm may be carried unloaded in a closed case, and that is what I would do. You might be able to have a loaded handgun openly carried (i.e. on the dash). However, doing so with any amount of alcohol would be infinitely irresponsible in my book even if not illegal.

All that said, this is my IMPESSION of the law without the benefit of thoroughly researching the subject. I may be completely wrong. I am not YOUR lawyer and I most certainly don't give legal advice on an open internet forum.

Ronvandyn · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2010, 06:24:01 PM »

Quote from: 2 E L O on June 07, 2010, 09:17:57 AM

I'll just plan on getting a TSA lockbox for the cargo area and locking up the firearm separate from the ammunition. Thank you to all that helped. I appreciate your input.

I have a better option for you. I have several of these and they work great! The smaller one works well to store my XD-40 sub and the larger for my Ruger P90DC. I can even fit the spare mag in the box without problems.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/standard-pod-wrapped.jsp?id=0045006&navCount=1&parentId=cat20772&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=MainCatcat602007-cat20772_TGP&parentType=index&indexId=cat20772&rid=

Ronvandyn · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2010, 06:33:41 PM »

Quote from: mizzly on June 07, 2010, 11:53:50 PM

Quote from: Ronvandyn on June 04, 2010, 02:59:15 PM
If you are a CCW holder then there is no need to have an Omaha OHP, but as it stands right this moment the weapon must be registered in Omaha.

Ron

I hope you are talking about Omaha residents needing to register there weapons & not visitors from other counties & states?

Unfortunately yes, that?s what I mean. Don?t shoot the messenger please. If I read the law right and paid attention in class, to open carry in Omaha your weapon must be registered in Omaha. At least until such time as the current law is rescinded.

On a side note, Title 18 USC, Ch. 44, para. 926A address? transportation of a firearm, and not open carry. They are two different things. At least that?s my read of the laws involved, but I am not an attorney so please take that with a grain of salt. I would be very careful about this area and make sure to research the topic very thoroughly before making a decision to open carry in any other state than mine.