IDPA at The Bullet Hole tonight!

[JimP]

  Hope to see you there!

[JimP]

Here's a link!

www.thebh.com/competition.php

Wear your Nebraska Firepower shirts!

[JimP]

 
The link didn't work............

[Jay]

I fixed your link for ya 

We have been wanting to attend for some time, but we have had 2 kids that need picked up on opposite ends of the city after work which has made it tough for us to do much of anything on weeknights. This week is the last week for football so starting next week we won't be so thinly spread out. Hopefully, we'll see ya'll next week!

[JimP]

Next week is IPSC  ..........  (different rules- more of a game, less emphasis on use of cover, neutralizing greatest threats first, unlimited equipment.)........... IDPA is better training. You must draw from concealment (they require a strong-side holster at this shoot, due to safety concerns), use (at least you're SUPPOSED TO USE- some officials grade harder than others) cover, and equipment is limited to carry- type rigs.

IPSC (International Practical Pistol Confederation) was started to make a game out of practical pistol skills, with the idea being that amatuer competition would foster excellence. Col. Jeff Cooper was one of its early proponents.  It has been ruined by "Gamers" who are more interested in winning a match than improving their practical skills. I see nothing "practical" about a $5,000 9x21 mm compensated 'spacegun' with a 1 lb holo red dot sight in a magnetic retention open fronted holster on a spring steel 'belt'.............. you wouldn't wear that stuff on the street, so why practice that way? The answer I get is, " because it is fun." As Col. Cooper put it, "What good is it to redouble your efforts after you have lost sight of your goals?"

IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) was formed in response to the gaming of IPSC. It is still fun, and strengthens street skills at the same time. I am not saying that you can't practice finding the front sight at an IPSC match, but if you get in the habit of standing in the open in one spot and hosing down a series of targets, left to right or right to left, and you run into a real world situation with several ARMED assailants, you are going to get KILLED. Train as you will fight, and you will fight as you have trained. If have not trained, you have no idea what will happen. No  amount of training can completely prepare a person for using deadly force in a self-defense siuation, but it's good to have an idea.

Training is a GOOD THING. I hardly even have to think about the front sight anymore. I draw, rack, and present the pistol and the front sight is already on center mass of the target......... tap tap.

 Except last night they threw a curve in.......... first stage had 3 armed BGs, one at 15 ft (center), one at 20' (on the left), and the third at maybe 23' (just to the right ). You were required to hit each one once before moving on to the next greatest threat, while backing away (creating distance). You are supposed to hit each target twice CM (or head) to avoid a time penalty. And the rear two targets had almost 50% 'hard cover'. You started facing to the right, with your strong hand on an imaginary ATM......... enough of the play-by play....... suffice to say that the new pistol shot very well, an I did pretty well (on the first run, 33 sec, 1 down- and not by much-, and 38 sec on the second run, 9 targets in each run, with no mikes and no hits on the non- threat.).

[Jay]

Thanks for all the info. This really interests me. Like I said, I practice all the time, but pretty much always on my own in my own spot with my own targets. It's good and bad when you have your own place to shoot, because you can practice whenever and however you want, but you also miss out on what others can teach you.

I do have one question which I could probably answer on my own if I took the time to research all the rules first, but I'm feeling particularly lazy this rainy morning  , you said:

"Training is a GOOD THING. I hardly even have to think about the front sight anymore. I draw, rack, and present the pistol and the front sight is already on center mass of the target......... tap tap."

So, I assume you are starting out with a loaded mag and an empty chamber? Or am I reading that wrong? If so, I am curious if that is because of the rules or because you choose to carry with an empty chamber. Not trying to start any big debates necessarily, just curious is all.

[Kim]

I have posted the information from the bullett holes website (www.thebh.com) below regarding the IPSC & IDPA shoots.

Every Tuesday night, there is something going on at The Bullet Hole

International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) competitions meet every Tuesday night not schedualed as IDPA competition.

International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) meets every 1st and 3rd Tuesday of the month.

Matches begin at approximately 6:00 P.M. There is fee to join. Come on in to watch or compete!

Required equipment is- A strongside belt holster, at least two magazines or speedloaders, and preferably a magazine holder.

Costs- $5 for one run through the course, $9 for two runs.

No experiance? No problem. Show up whenever you have some time to watch and once you feel up to the challenge we'll set you up with an orientation and safety briefing.

[Jay]

Kim wrote:
"I have posted the information from the bullett holes website (www.thebh.com) below regarding the IPSC & IDPA shoots."

Thanks my dear. That also happens to be the same page that is in JimP's link above, but hey, you already knew that. 

Being married is fun. LOL 

[JimP]

Yeah, both my carry guns are 1911s. Single action. Meaning pulling the trigger will only do a single action- drop the hammer. Pulling the trigger on a double action pistol first cocks and then drops the hammer. One of the virtues of the 1911 is the very short, light, straight trigger pull- about 1/8 of an inch straight back.  It was for this reason that the US Government required the grip safety to be added before they would adopt it as the standard sidearm, almost 100 years ago. A lot of peaple have told me that it is perfectly safe to carry a 1911 "cocked and locked" (condition 1), as the thumb safety would have to move or fail AND the grip safety would have to be depressed or fail, AND the Trigger would have to move or fail. But...........

...........Prior to getting my CHP I carried at home for months with dummy ammo, practicing my draw stroke, and getting used to carrying. I had a 5" 1911 in a suede IWB holster at the 5 o'clock position, with a forward cant. In all those months, the thumb safety moved once. That was one time to many for me. The thought of a powder gas enema ........ I'd rather not think about that ........... SO..........

.......I could carry in condition 2 (hammer down on a round in the chamber- the way double action pistols are carried), but manually cocking a 1911 with your thumb is awkward, slow and might allow for your thumb to slip, ............ not only that, a light blow to the hammer (as in dropping the gun- easy enough to do w/o your thumb wrapped around the grip.....) will fire the chambered round.

...........or I could carry in condition 3 (hammer down on an empty chamber. It worksfor the Israeli IDF(although they do it differently than I do- they present the pistol on its side, and pull the slide back w/ finger and thumb, then right the pistol). If you practice it, it takes like 2/10ths of a second, and that's not an extra 2/10ths- you don't grab the slide and pull it back. Rather, as the gun is coming up, the off hand goes over the top, squeezing the slide between the 4 fingers and the palm. As the pistol is shoved forward to arms length, the slide stays in place momentarily, and upon release, the round is chambered. The only extra time involved is moving your off hand to wrap the strong hand. And that's not really extra time either, as while thats happenening, your strong hand and you eye are putting the front sight on the CM of the target. It sounds complicated, but try describing how to ride a bike. With practice, you don't even think about it.

There is no free lunch- this system has its disadvantages. It requires 2 hands (or a 1911 with a stadard -as opposed to full length- guide rod and a solid object, like a steering wheel). And point shooting from the hip is not possible( which I'm not a fan of anyway-I am responsible for EVERY bullet that leaves my gun.)............

[Jay]

Thanks for all the great info for those that might be new to firearms. I know it can be easy to forget that not everyone is as experienced in a certain area as we are, so it's great that you took the time to explain yourself so well. I really want to use this site to help bring new shooters into the fold without intimidating them, so again thanks for your reply.

While, I personally don't agree with carrying empty-chambered, I know that many people do. I wasn't calling you out on it. This is one of those subjects that has the potential to get heated. It is a personal thing and I think that as long as you practice OFTEN with your preferred method of carry, you'll be OK. My biggest hang-up with your method is I don't like having to rely on needing both hands. As my wife will tell you, I constantly preach situational awareness, and hope to never let a bad guy get so close to me that I have to use my weak hand to create distance, but I have also seen some great videos on how fast a knife yielding bad guy can close up a considerable distance. It's not that racking the slide adds that much more time to what it takes to draw and point, but I might need my other hand to protect myself or to hold the attacker off of me.

That being said, it would be un-nerving to have had the safety dislodged. Did the hammer actually drop? I can't imagine what would have caused that if the weapon fit properly in a quality holster.

Oh, and just for the record, I carry a DA/SA. I figure the heavy trigger pull of the first shot will not affect my accuracy enough to make a difference in a defensive situation.

[JimP]

While, I personally don't agree with carrying empty-chambered, I know that many people do. I wasn't calling you out on it. This is one of those subjects that has the potential to get heated. It is a personal thing and I think that as long as you practice OFTEN with your preferred method of carry, you'll be OK. My biggest hang-up with your method is I don't like having to rely on needing both hands. As my wife will tell you, I constantly preach situational awareness, and hope to never let a bad guy get so close to me that I have to use my weak hand to create distance, but I have also seen some great videos on how fast a knife yielding bad guy can close up a considerable distance. It's not that racking the slide adds that much more time to what it takes to draw and point, but I might need my other hand to protect myself or to hold the attacker off of me.

This subject- carrying in condition 3- does get quite heated, but I don't understand why. It's not like I'm taking a sledge hammer to kittens or telling someone else that they are doing it wrong and should have their guns taken away....... it's just the way I do it.

[JimP]

That being said, it would be un-nerving to have had the safety dislodged. Did the hammer actually drop? I can't imagine what would have caused that if the weapon fit properly in a quality holster.

No, the hammer did not fall, as the grip safety would have to be depressed or fail, and the trigger have to move or the sear/hammer hook fail or...... it's not very likely, but it has happened........
It Is VERY UN-NERVING to ME. The thought of an explosion powerful enough to propel a 230 bullet THROUGH a human body CONTAINED betweem my jeans and my tighty-whities....... is well, I don't want to think about that.

As for what caused it, I think its a combination of a soft IWB hoster that the gun rides very low in, and an extended thumb safety. Both of my carry guns have them, and I will remedy that as soon as I can. I think they are unnecessary. When I am in complete confidence I won't shoot myself in the behind, I'll carry locked and cocked. But for now, I have adapted my tactics and training to the tools at hand.

On that note, I'll have to relearn my drawstroke when I start carrying in condition 1. I'll have to remember the thumb safety, which I don't even use now......

[JimP]

Oh, and just for the record, I carry a DA/SA. I figure the heavy trigger pull of the first shot will not affect my accuracy enough to make a difference in a defensive situation.

You'd be suprised how much the change in trigger pull affects probability of first round hits............... watching some of the DA/SA guys shoot at IDPA, I suspect some are using what Col. Cooper called "the shot-cock system"- just flinging the first round downrange unsighted to get the gun into single action mode. I'm fine with this, so long as their misses don't hit an innocent bystander (particularly if it's me or mine). I wouldn't do it, as I believe to my core, that I am responsible for all bullets that leave my barrel. That said, it is an imperfect world, and some thing s can't be helped. You make your choices the best you can and live with them the best you can.

[Jay]

The DA pull no doubt affects accuracy, but here is my thinking on that:

Most self-defense shots are within a distance of a few feet. Even in a stressful event, I can't see my marksmanship being so greatly affected that merely the difference in trigger weights will cause me to miss a COM shot at three feet. More than likely, my adrenaline would be pumping so much that I probably wouldn't even notice it. If I needed to take a shot at a far enough distance that I needed more precise accuracy, then more than likely I'm already running and searching for cover instead of engaging in a shootout. If I'm already behind cover and need to return fire, then I should have time to manually pull back the hammer and fire the first shot from SA mode. I might even get lucky and be close to my vehicle or my home, and in that case, I guarantee you I'm losing the handgun for a rifle, anyways. No matter how you look at it, handguns are a poor choice for engaging a threat. I like the saying that a handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle.

We both know we can talk about this until we are blue in the face, but when it comes down to actually being faced with a life a death situation, everything changes. This is why I don't get too riled up when someone prefers a different method of carry than I do. Pick what you are comfortable with, PRACTICE with what you carry and how you carry it, and pray that you will never have to use it.

[JimP]

I did the the one handed draw and rack drill this afternoon........ first with the 5"(it has been awhile, but I got better) and then with the EMP (FAILURE  )...... the Novak style rear sight  and full length guide rod have defeated me...... the heel of my shoe worked, but was slow as hell.... the force required to rack the slide is greater than my 5".......

The EMP's safety is stiffer....... I'll test it for a while before carrying C&L.... that appears to be the only option.