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Author Topic: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot  (Read 2685 times)

Offline flatwater_go

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"A Scotts Bluff High student faces a mandatory one year expulsion from Nebraska public schools after an unloaded shotgun was observed in his car in the high school parking lot last week. "

http://www.kneb.com/news/index/c852d479-fa7a-4b2d-b4f5-6f5af81fdb7f


"SCOTTSBLUFF, Neb. - A Scottsbluff High School student expelled for possessing a firearm on school grounds had reportedly used the weapon for hunting purposes. There was no intent to cause harm to anyone, officials say."

http://southwestiowanews.com/articles/2010/12/10/around_the_region/doc4d024914106c4548817683.txt


Offline NE Bull

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2010, 07:30:47 AM »
WOW it must be in the air!  :
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_30256480-0282-11e0-ac8f-001cc4c03286.html

Montana Honor Student suspended for leaving unloaded rifle in trunk of car, even though SHE brought it to the principles attetion when it was announced that a dog check was being done in the parking lot.
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Offline RLMoeller

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2010, 09:54:34 AM »
Well, it is hunting season, so more opportunity for this to happen.

These instances are a horrific example of what a joke "zero tolerance" is.  Zero tolerance as implemented in our schools mean "zero need for school officials to think".   Just like those kids that get expelled from school when they are caught with drugs.  You know, a couple ibuprofen.


Offline DanClrk51

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 11:22:32 PM »
So how does the Federal Law deal with Shooting/Hunting Clubs at schools? And how does this Federal Law deal with Arizona's "Gun 101" class which is now an elective class?

This is why I opposed LB63 in Nebraska because it made it a felony just to have mere possession of a firearm on school grounds regardless if it is on YOUR PROPERTY (Inside your car).

NFOA should add this "zero tolerance" crap on our long list of legislative goals and we need to fight to undo the damage that was done by LB 63 in regards to a felony charge for just possessing a firearm on school grounds in a vehicle. Other states have enshrined into their respective state laws that a person's vehicle is an extension of one's home. Whatever is inside a person's vehicle is on that person's property. No school, or employer or anyone has any business nor the right to tell you what you can or cannot possess inside your own vehicle!
What's next? Are they going to tell us our kids can't possess a Bible on the front seat of their vehicle on school grounds because it may offend someone? They are already telling kids that you can't pray in school, even by yourself.

We need to push for a state law in Nebraska that will declare one's vehicle an extension of one's home. And we need to pass along with it legislation that will forbid the possession of firearms in employees vehicles while parked at work.

Offline Dan W

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 10:17:18 AM »
That last line does not make any sense...

Quote
we need to pass along with it legislation that will forbid the possession of firearms in employees vehicles while parked at work.

Can you clarify that?
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Offline wrenrj1

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 07:44:51 PM »
Let's slow down a bit.  What are the rules of SB county schools? The article didn't mention any school shooting affiliation that this person would have a reason to have a firearm in his vehicle.

Nobody know's this kid's intent (I'm assuming it was not intentional), however let's hold kids and parents accountable to the rules.  Seems that too many free passes are handed out as opposed to tough love.  He was wrong.

Saying that, the punishment is the issue, was it appropriate?

Offline justsomeguy

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 08:00:36 PM »
I  don't believe that it is wrong to have a firearm in your vehicle no matter where you park.

Against the rules? Yes and that is the problem.
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." - Marcus Aurelius

Offline DanClrk51

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2010, 11:35:53 PM »
That last line does not make any sense...

Quote
we need to pass along with it legislation that will forbid the possession of firearms in employees vehicles while parked at work.

Can you clarify that?

Yeah that was a mistake...oops. What i meant to say was:

We need to push for a state law in Nebraska that will declare one's vehicle an extension of one's home. And we need to pass along with it legislation that will forbid employers from banning the possession of firearms in employees vehicles while parked at work.

Offline DanClrk51

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 11:42:59 PM »
Nobody know's this kid's intent (I'm assuming it was not intentional), however let's hold kids and parents accountable to the rules.  Seems that too many free passes are handed out as opposed to tough love.  He was wrong.

Saying that, the punishment is the issue, was it appropriate?

So because this kid forgot to take the shotgun out of the vehicle after hunting you want to make him a felon and ruin his life because he made an honest mistake? He didn't hurt anyone and the shotgun was not loaded in accordance with state law as far as transporting shotguns in a vehicle is concerned.
Just another example of why our prisons are full with people that shouldn't be there while the ones that should be locked up are not.

Offline ScottC

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2010, 03:15:55 PM »
This junk maybe legit on either of the left coasts, but not in Nebraska.

When I was a kid, 90% of the vehicles in the school parking lot had firearms in them (trunk or back window) and no one cared.  In fact, if someone got a new one most the teachers and kids were out there at noon break to admire it.

This SB rot is indicative of 'what is wrong in the US' at the moment.

Offline HuskerXDM

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 05:13:34 PM »
my issue is that school are allowed to trump Federal law, even though they take both state and federal dollars... if I want to go to the only indoor range in Lincoln after work, it is against LPS policy for anyone to have a weapon in the car, even if it is locked (LPS handbook)... I drive to work, then have to drive home, and back to the range... just a nuisance, i know, but the range is almost as far from my house as physically possible.

I'm all for private entities being able to set their own rules, but I can be fired even while following Federal law because of a school policy.  Makes no sense to me.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2010, 06:18:33 PM »
Husker XDM, how does the exception for CHP holders effect you (assuming you have a CHP) as Nebraska law allows CHP holders to have secured handguns in their car on school property.

This rule  may not relieve you of an LPS edict as an employee, though, unless you park off campus.
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Offline HuskerXDM

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 06:50:40 AM »
There is no exception for permit holders (yes I have a permit) in the school board policy, as I read it.  I will check again, however.  

LPS employee policy:
D. Possession of a Weapon by Employees (Policy 4800 and Policy Regulation 4800.1)
The district prohibits any employee from being in possession of a weapon at a school attendance facility, on school property, at a school-supervised activity, or at a school-sponsored function. Any employee found to be in violation of this policy shall be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including termination.
1. As used in this policy, the term "weapon" means an instrument or object used, or which may be used, as a means of attack, defense, or destruction, including, without limitation:
a. Any object which will, or is designed to, or may readily be converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other means;
b. The frame or receiver of any object described in the preceding example;
c. Any firearm muffler or silencer;
d. Any explosive, incendiary or gas (a) bomb, (b) grenade, (c) rocket, (d) missile, (e) mine, or similar device;
e. Any bludgeon, sandclub, metal knuckles, or throwing star;
f. Any knife other than as used for strictly instructional or personal care or eating purposes. A pocket knife with a blade of 2-1/2 inches or more is a prohibited weapon. Maintenance employees may possess a knife with a blade of 2-1/2 inches or more if such a knife is necessary as a tool for the employee?s work and if used in a manner for which it was designed. A switch-blade knife is prohibited regardless of size of the blade. A switch-blade knife is defined as a knife with a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of a knife, or any knife having a blade that opens or falls or is ejected into position by the force of gravity or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;
g. Any electronic device designed to discharge immobilizing levels of electricity, commonly known as a stun gun;
h. Any other object that is designed for or intended for use as a destructive or injurious device.
2. An employee may possess mace or other similar chemical agents in quantity and/or concentration typically designed for individual personal defensive purposes and it shall not be considered as possession of a weapon. Possession of larger quantities and/or concentrations of mace or other similar chemical agents than is typically designed for individual personal defensive purposes will be considered as possession of a weapon. Usage of mace or other similar chemical agents will be considered as usage of a weapon if the usage
37
is found to be for non-defensive purposes. An employee who is negligent in their possession of mace or other similar chemical agents will be subject to disciplinary action.
3. An employee may possess an item which may be considered a weapon where such item is used for instructional purposes and the employee has received approval of the administration to possess the item, provided it is used in the manner approved and is maintained in such manner as the administration has directed.
4. As used in this policy, the phrase "possession of a weapon" includes, without limitation, a weapon in an employee's personal possession, as well as in an employee's motor vehicle, desk, locker, backpack, or purse.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 06:58:33 AM by HuskerXDM »
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Offline NE Bull

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2010, 01:01:21 PM »
WOW it must be in the air!  :
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_30256480-0282-11e0-ac8f-001cc4c03286.html

Montana Honor Student suspended for leaving unloaded rifle in trunk of car, even though SHE brought it to the principles attetion when it was announced that a dog check was being done in the parking lot.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_fac51a08-0739-11e0-aff2-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

Seems like common sense prevailed in the Montana case. 
Any follow up on the Scotts Bluff case?
“It is not an issue of being afraid, It's an issue of not being afraid to protect myself.”
 Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert
 "A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that."  Shane

Offline DanClrk51

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2010, 06:44:19 AM »

http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_fac51a08-0739-11e0-aff2-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

Seems like common sense prevailed in the Montana case. 
Any follow up on the Scotts Bluff case?
[/quote]

Well that is good to hear. Sadly, it doesn't solve our Nebraska case, especially since the legislature made it a felony to be in possession of a gun on school property whether its in a vehicle or not. We can only hope the authorities don't press charges.

Offline NE Bull

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2010, 08:28:24 AM »
We it sounds like the Montana folks nuilt some leway into the state law and the school had set precedence with previous incidents, that she was sure to be allowed back in school.  That's the thing with laws, there has to be some 'wiggle room' to adjust to the circumstances at hand. 
As i was checking up on this, I did notice a couple more of these type of happennings across the nation, of students inadvertantly leaving a hunting rilfe/ shotgun in there car at school.

Someone correct me if my source is wrong, but it was explained to me that federal law states that you cannot 'discharge' a firearm in or on school property, does not make reference to 'carrying' a firearm on school property.  My source if a family member who worked for a school district and hosts CCW classes back home. This info was given to him by a retired LEO who instructs the classes. Any merit it?  (I know that many states have put in effect laws that tighten up where the feds left off, but...)
“It is not an issue of being afraid, It's an issue of not being afraid to protect myself.”
 Omaha Mayor Jean Stothert
 "A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that."  Shane

Offline ScottC

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2010, 10:10:46 AM »
At both my kids' schools (Jr & HS) they can't even have something with firearm references on it (words or pictures). 

For example: if it says "Winchester" without anything else it's ok; but if it says "Winchester Firearms" or shows a picture of a firearm they can't have it there.

It's pathetic.

Offline flatwater_go

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2010, 03:36:28 PM »
I'm asking this question as a fairly new NFOA member.

"What is NFOA's role in the Scottsbluff incident?" 

Will the NFOA board of directors review this to see if a call to action is warranted?  Should a NFOA position be developed and a press release be sent out?  Should NFOA members individually contact their State Senators to make sure that they are aware that this incident is happening?  Should the NFOA approach other groups such as Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever to educate and activate their respective memberships in hopes of getting this law modified or repealed?


Offline justsomeguy

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2010, 04:02:57 PM »


Someone correct me if my source is wrong, but it was explained to me that federal law states that you cannot 'discharge' a firearm in or on school property, does not make reference to 'carrying' a firearm on school property.  My source if a family member who worked for a school district and hosts CCW classes back home. This info was given to him by a retired LEO who instructs the classes. Any merit it?  (I know that many states have put in effect laws that tighten up where the feds left off, but...)

Look into the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act revised 1995.
It appears that unless you are a CHP holder in your own state, even transporting an unloaded firearm to the range would violate Federal law! (unless in a locked container) There are K-12 schools everywhere and firearms are not allowed anywhere near them, even on public roads.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:54:57 PM by justsomeguy »
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Offline AAllen

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Re: SHS student faces expulsion for having hunting gun in parking lot
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2010, 04:17:21 PM »
Flatwater, You are asking the question that has been running through my mind for the last week, "Should the NFOA play a role in this?"  Unfortunately there has not been enough information given for me to be able to give an answer.  Nebraska Law and the School policy at Scottsbluff require the student be immediately expelled.  But the Superintendant of in this case with an appeal to the school board can adjust the punishment to fit the violation.  It is the students? family that needs to decide if they wish to appeal the expulsion, if they do I can write an editorial that lays groundwork for support.  We can write letters to the School Board trying to sway their vote.  We can get as many members as possible to the School Board meeting to support the appeal.  But unfortunately there is one basic news story reprinted in multiple different papers with no real news other than the shotgun was on school property and the Superintendant feels that a one year expulsion is appropriate.

If anyone has more information, I have read the school rules and student handbook from Scottsbluff, we would be supportive of an appeal.  But I cannot force one, nor can I "shame" a superintendant into changing the punishment he has given without one.

I have had several conversations with Senators about the "Zero Tolerance" policies and their problems.  They all point out that they have set the expulsion as a guideline and that local School Boards and Superintendants have the ability to make decisions to lessen the punishment.  They feel that this puts the control on the local people involved to make the best decision for their community and for the particular situation they are facing, and I agree that at that local level is where this needs to be taken care of and they have the power to do something, but without the family involved wanting to do something there is nothing we can do to help.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:20:50 PM by AAllen »