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Author Topic: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies  (Read 2725 times)

Offline sjwsti

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/spotsylvania-man-inadvertently-shoots-self-in-giant-parking-lot/2011/11/14/gIQASJKxLN_blog.html

Spotsylvania man inadvertently shoots self in Giant parking lot
By Matt Zapotosky
A Spotsylvania County man inadvertently shot and killed himself Sunday in the parking lot of a Giant food store where he and his family had gone to return a movie, authorities said.

The 45-year-old man apparently reached down to buckle or remove his seatbelt and inadvertently pulled the trigger on a Glock 40-caliber handgun he was carrying, said Capt. Elizabeth Scott, the public information officer for the Spotsylvania County Sheriff’s Office.

The weapon fired a round into his hip, delivering what would prove to be a fatal wound, Scott said.

“He’s undergoing an autopsy right now, but ... it obviously hit a major artery,” Scott said.

The man had gone to the Giant store, in a shopping center at the intersection of Plank Road and Harrison Road, about 4:45 p.m. Sunday to return a movie to a Redbox kiosk, Scott said. She said his wife got out of the van to drop off the movie, but at least two children were inside when the round was fired.

The man’s wife told officers she heard what sounded like a pop, then heard her husband say, “I just shot myself,” Scott said. Bystanders and an officer tried to apply pressure to the wound as the man lost blood, but their efforts were futile.

The man was pronounced dead after being taken to a hospital, Scott said.

Scott declined to release the man’s name, saying the sheriff’s office policy is not to identify victims of self-inflicted gunshot wounds. She said while the investigation is still ongoing, “there is no indication whatsoever there is foul play.”

Scott said it remains unclear whether the weapon was holstered or in the man’s pocket during the incident, or whether it was a legally owned gun. When officers arrived, she said, it was on the floor of the van.

Scott said the incident should serve as a reminder to gun owners to properly holster their weapons.

“If you’re going to be carrying a weapon, know your weapon and know that it should always be in a holster,” she said. “A good holster, you’re not going to be able to accidentally hit the trigger.”
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Offline NENick

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 09:34:36 AM »
I know of a few people who carry in their waistband without a holster. Does anyone here carry without a holster?

I am always concerned about being “that guy” who shot himself, so I take plenty of precautions.

In regards to this story: How in the hell did this guy manage this?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 10:18:42 AM by NENick »

Offline NE Bull

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 09:40:19 AM »
If I do carry sans holster it is usually just to the convenience store right behind our apartment, or to the car or P.O. box after dark. Even then it is usually the P-64 decocked and locked, and/or without a round in the chamber in the pocket.  I know not tactically efficient, but with my children around, I don't want to be "that Guy".
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Offline JTH

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 10:09:35 AM »
I know of a few people who carry in their waistband without a holster. Does anyone here carry without a holster?

NEVER. 

Seriously.  Keep that trigger guard covered unless you are deliberately drawing.  No, I don't care if it is a revolver with a 12-pound pull.  Buy a $20 pocket holster (it'll print less anyway) and keep it safe.

Never carry without a holster.  If you do---well, then, you are significantly increasing your chances of being That Guy.  And afterward, you'll be known as "That Dumba$$ Who Didn't Use A Holster When He Should Have".

Not that I have a strong opinion about this.  :)
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 11:58:03 AM »
I often carry inside my waistband at 2:00 since it hides well on me, but NEVER without a holster.  I value the family jewels too much for that.

Offline PhilK

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2011, 06:04:03 PM »
If I do carry sans holster it is usually just to the convenience store right behind our apartment, or to the car or P.O. box after dark. Even then it is usually the P-64 decocked and locked, and/or without a round in the chamber in the pocket.  I know not tactically efficient, but with my children around, I don't want to be "that Guy".

Don't carry that P-64 anywhere with the safety off - those bad boys will discharge if the hammer is struck or pulled back halfway and released.

http://www.p64resource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3942

http://www.p64resource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4378&sid=ec3dcff9b2e19acb6cc36a0f2b5fcf6d

Offline dcjulie

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2011, 07:52:59 PM »
I can't imaging carrying on my person without having the gun in a holster.   You are tempting fate way too much.  Hard to feel sorry for someone in this situation, too. :(   I feel bad that he died from his wound, but carrying with a round in the chamber without the trigger guard covered is asking for trouble.

Offline Dan W

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2011, 08:12:54 PM »
I wonder what he was actually doing to complete that long trigger pull that all Glocks are (in)famous for. It's not like you just bump the trigger on a Glock and it fires.

A lot of movement is required to take up the normal slop in the safe action system, release the firing pin block, and finally let the firing pin fly.

Not to detract from the "always use a holster the covers the trigger guard" rule, I just don't get how one can fiddle around with a gun pointed at your jewels enough to make it fire, oblivious to the impending doom
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Offline DanClrk51

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 02:58:51 AM »
This is very sad. That poor family.

If I do carry sans holster it is usually just to the convenience store right behind our apartment, or to the car or P.O. box after dark. Even then it is usually the P-64 decocked and locked, and/or without a round in the chamber in the pocket.  I know not tactically efficient, but with my children around, I don't want to be "that Guy".

Yeah, I own a P-64 as well and have only carried it on occasion in the back pocket of my jeans. The times that I did carry it, the loaded magazine was in the gun but I didn't chamber a round. I think thats the safest way to carry if your not going to use a holster. Not using a holster with a cocked and loaded gun is insanity and to those of you carrying cocked and loaded in the waistband without holster: YOUR NUTS!

I agree with Dan W. here. He must have been seriously messing with the gun for it to fire. I really question if he had a holster or a low quality one at that. I'm glad the police captain used the opportunity to educate the public and not use the story as a forum to bash guns themselves.

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2011, 06:57:53 AM »
Sadly this will probably just further the notion that guns "just go off" by themselves.  I agree, he must have been messing with it.

Offline CitizenClark

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2011, 11:04:50 AM »
I know of a few people who carry in their waistband without a holster. Does anyone here carry without a holster?

I am always concerned about being “that guy” who shot himself, so I take plenty of precautions.

In regards to this story: How in the hell did this guy manage this?

I very occasionally "Mexican carry," but I would never do so with a striker-fired pistol like a Glock that didn't have some external safety (like the XD's grip safety, for example). Mexican carry poses less of a safety issue with traditional double-action pistols, although it is pretty obvious that the use of a holster makes for a more secure firearm.

This story is an awful reminder of the fact that a wound to your legs (or pelvis) can kill. The femoral artery is a major thoroughfare in the human circulatory system, and if it gets nicked or severed fatal exsanguination can occur is an extremely short time.

When I was younger, I worked at Boy Scout camp and we used to cruise around the camp in extremely beat up work trucks. One time we were doing some maintenance work near the health lodge (where the paramedics stay while camp is going on), and upon completion of whatever task we were taking care of, we all jumped back into the truck to head on to the next stop. A kid we had nicknamed "Crawfish" jumped into the back of the truck and caught his knee on a shard of ragged sheet metal. He hit it just right and nicked his femoral artery about two inches above the knee. Luckily there were half a dozen eagle scouts within ten feet of him, and after we saw that blood arcing out of his leg we quickly applied direct pressure to the wound, elevated his leg, and manually compressed his femoral artery against his femur to slow the bleeding. He had to go have surgery at the hospital, but had no lasting ill effects and resumed work on the waterfront as soon as his stitches were out.

(This incident, probably more than anything else, is why I always carry a blow-out kit with hemostatic agents [QuikClot] with me when I am going to be out in the woods or otherwise far from medical care providers.)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 11:56:14 AM by CitizenClark »

Offline sjwsti

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2011, 03:40:25 PM »
Obviously carrying in a properly fitted holster should be a no brainer, not only from a safety standpoint but also a retention issue. Having your gun fall out of your pants isnt cool.

Also carrying a semi-auto pistol without a round chambered is just as foolish. You are assuming a lot carrying like this. You assume you will have the time, space and most likely two hands to work with.

This comes up a lot in the classes I teach. Once I ask a student to demonstrate how they will chamber a round one handed while simultaneously defending themselves with the other it is usually silence and a blank stare.

There certainly are ways to do that but your pistol has to be set up properly to allow it. And the more violent the attack the more difficult it will be to chamber a round, one or two handed. You are adding a huge step to the presentation of your gun. The more steps you add the more chances you have to screw it up. Simpler is always better.

We worked this out years ago in FOF drills. I walked away from training that day, with no doubt at all, that carrying without a round chambered simply wasnt an option. Most will rationalize this because it makes them "feel" safe. But is it really safer?  I say the only person that is "safe" will be the bad guy.

If your gun is mechanically unsafe with a cartridge chambered, you shouldnt be carrying it.

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Offline Chris Z

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2011, 06:47:55 PM »
Damn unsafe Glocks   :-)

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 09:31:35 PM »
Or you could just carry a wheel gun so EVERY chamber is loaded  ;D

I prefer an autoloader when I can carry one, but you rarely hear about someone "accidentally" shooting themselves with a revolver.  Maybe that's because not as many people carry them, or maybe it's because of the heavier trigger pull.  I tend to carry my little .38 more than any other gun just because it's so light, and I think for a lot of novices a revolver might be a better pick.

Offline bullit

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 06:46:14 PM »
"Damn unsafe Glocks   :-)"

I know....my collection gave birth to another one yesteday.......like rats....

Offline sparky

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 07:50:53 PM »
"Damn unsafe Glocks   :-)"

I know....my collection gave birth to another one yesteday.......like rats....
I know, thats why I refuse to get one, next thing you know I'll have two, then three..
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Offline Chris Z

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 07:52:25 PM »
Or four or five, or a safe full, or two safes full of them

Offline JTH

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2011, 08:43:33 PM »
Or four or five, or a safe full, or two safes full of them

And then you'll talk your wife into trying a Glock, and then you'll BOTH have your own collections, and every time you get a new one she gets a new one....

[sigh]  And then she wins one but you don't get to buy another one since hers was free....  :(
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2011, 08:46:30 PM »
and every time you get a new one she gets a new one....


I fail to see the problem here.

Offline dcjulie

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Re: Man inadvertently shoots self in grocery store parking lot and dies
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 08:49:49 PM »
But, but ... I LIKE to win guns!  Besides, I've only won ONE Glock, the other was an XDM, oh, and the OTHER was a Sig Sauer p226.... :)