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Author Topic: Copper Plating  (Read 32916 times)

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #140 on: November 15, 2012, 08:02:55 PM »
Had a crushing headache last night, so didn't touch it much.

A dollar store, a few grocery stores, walmart, walgreens.... and zero luck finding plastic duck-bill hair things.  I did find some metal ones at walgreens though  ::)

Grabbed some 1/2 inch pvc pipe to go with the other pvc pipe i've got... will just cut'em in half long ways and attach to clothes pins and try that out.

If everything works out, will just take pvc to work and use our scroll saw here to get a bunch cut down (assuming it's a PITA to do at home).

Tomorrow I'll talk to the guys at hawk bullets concerning their swage dies.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #141 on: November 15, 2012, 08:10:32 PM »
I think you need a new avatar:


Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2012, 08:23:14 PM »
Or perhaps one of these:







kinda... large:

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #143 on: November 16, 2012, 11:02:57 PM »
After falling asleep in cot at work this afternoon, woke up at 7PM and decided to head down to Moeller Arms and say hiya and pick up an NFOA shirt.  Met Rod & Koz, both nice folks. If ya ever get some free time, I'd suggest stopping by to say hi as well.

Then went to walmart to pick up a variety of crafting / popsicle sticks.  Also grabbed some plastic silverware to possibly chop up if i feel froggy.  I'm sure they make plastic crafting sticks i can fiddle with if this ends up working out.

Tonight feeling the SCIENCE itch and not suffering from a nasty headache, lookin' good for experimentin' time!
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Clippy does good, needs a few tweaks.
« Reply #144 on: November 17, 2012, 05:52:08 AM »


This was the first clothespin / crafting stick combo.  It wasn't fully stable though due to the shape of the wire that holds the bullet... so a small change and...





Slightly fixes it, i really should still come up with a better way of forming the contact thicker metal thing wrapped at end of the crafting sticks... but... for now... whatever. I also went ahead and ran the tiny gauge conductivity wire to both sides (visible underneath a bit).  The conducting wire is run along the top / slightly hidden from view.  The tip i connected to the power supply can be seen sticking out the top.

Making sure to bend the wire a lil to be more of a C shape helped remove a lot of the accidental bullet-slip-out stuff.

Also visible in the upper left was a 1 hour plate test of the clip.  There is some slight brown spots on it.  These are where the tip of the craft sticks go beyond the the wire portion... which causes poor CuSO4 solution circulation (thus poor plating).  Might be able to make the wire slightly better shaped to put more distance between wood and bullet.

The coat quality on the bullet itself is excellent (barring the problem mentioned above).  The nose of the bullet has some of the 'crystalization' look that some earlier bullets had as well... so it's a thick coat.

* I'll simply break / cut off the bits of wood sticking beyond the bullet grabbing portion. 

* Look into fiddling with the wire grabber portion to put more space between lead and wood. 

* Connect a second clothespin so that the grabby hole portion of it is aligned in such a way that the bullets sit at the proper depth in the solution when i clip the second pin to the metal anode. 

* Will obviously be running wire to the second clip for the anode connection etc.

All in all ? Much easier to work with.  MUCH MUCH MUCH easier.

I'm highly encouraged.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #145 on: November 19, 2012, 06:10:11 PM »
Only place I could find a bunch of springy clothespins that weren't "crafting" and cost an arm and a leg was Dollar General 50 packs were like a $1.50.  Also grabbed a thousand pack of zip ties....

Fiddling with the thicker wire in an attempt to make the C shaped bullet holding portion.... stuck a couple nuts in a vice and used bolts to make a jig... getting stuff consistent wasn't really happening.  I'm wanting to make a " B " shape or something so that the bullet gets held in place via the joint formed by the curves of the " B ".

Along those lines, I wonder if drilling a small hole in the popsicle sticks and using tiny bolt + wingnuts would work.  Eyeballed a few at hardware store today, but didn't have a bullet hand to confirm sizes / shapes.  They have some pretty small ones, so I think surface area shouldn't be a problem.  Can always file them down in size if I really wanted to (i don't).

Finding plastic popsicle sticks have proven quite difficult.  The garden plant identifier stuff might have similar options though.  Will do a quick check of a store tonight and see if I can get lucky.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #146 on: November 19, 2012, 10:20:39 PM »
If it wasn't a company logo, this would be real tempting for an avatar too:



hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2012, 02:43:02 AM »
Wingnut idea has definite possibilities.

I picked up wing nuts, some bolts, a grinder, etc.... but didn't have a slug of lead to base it off of...

Came up with:



Sadly, for .40S&W, this ends up being just a bit too big still.  For 45ACP it's prolly the right size.

These were 8-32 wing nuts with some matching 1/2 inch long bolts ground down in length.

i can prolly hit the wing nuts with files or grinder to make'em better... but.... tomorrow I'll just take popsicle sticks, and lead back to hardware store and fiddle some more.  Will prolly find a good size then look online to see about ordering in bulk instead of paying 40 cents apiece etc.

Looking at the existing wing nuts I have, they might be close to the same surface area of the bullet... which is definitely not what I want as well.  But these are definitely very close to what I'm wanting.

Inching closer :P



edit:

oh, first stab at digging up some plastic plant label things as a replacement for wood popsicle sticks failed.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 02:45:13 AM by unfy »
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #148 on: November 20, 2012, 02:49:18 AM »
I may have to visit you sometime and watch this whole process.

I took a tour of Sierra's factory about a year ago. Very interesting and educational.

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #149 on: November 20, 2012, 03:57:05 AM »
well, i've tried to get lotsa pictures so that people can follow along.

assuming i get something that is feasible, i'll build something less prototype-ish and actually something more 'production ready' or something heh.  that'll be a little bit though. a video of the process would be made as well.

Current on the todo list:

* these clothespin hanger things are sooooo close to being solid...
** a plastic popsicle stick would be ideal... or some other plasticy whatever...
** i like the wing nut route cause it might make caliber change overs easier... dunno about .300 or .22 rifle rounds tho
** still kinda fiddling with wire based lube-groove grabbers just cause it has possibilities as well
** do wonder if thin aluminum/copper sheets can be cut to make the C lube groove grabber bits ? cut a thin strip, drill a hole, use a jig with a bolt/nut to bend it to desired shape and or possibly file it ?
** whatever i use for lube grabber needs to be something easy to recreate and consistent... the wire based grabbers aren't so much :(

* still need to come up with an easy way to 'brush' the lead
** plumbing pipe brushes only go down to half inch :(
** need to look into the steel wool mitt idea... its easy and might work ?
** dunno if a groove cut in a piece of wood to hold bullets while brushing them ?
** dunno if can build a wood thing that has a groove cut in it, lined with brush heads, then an identical piece with brushes laid on top of it to produce a brush 'hole' to dowel lead through ?

Assuming the clothespin idea works out...
* a wood or pvc rig built around the tank to hold the electrically hot rods the clips clip on to would be great
* copper tubing is cheap, but dunno if some other kind of rod / all thread / whatever would be easier ?

I'd like to re-visit my DC power source.  Right now it's on the more expensive side since it relies on a $50 or $60 13VDC power supply that my custom thing then cuts down to 1-6V.  I also have questions as to how much power output my custom thing can handle... while the 13VDC is putting out 3 amps, i don't think I get anywhere near that through my thing.  'trace' size or something might be an issue, dunno.  I'll also look at sourcing other DC power sources closer to 5V with high amperage.  13->1 produces a fair amount of waste heat.

I forgot the guy's name (oops), but earlier in the thread he posted pics and schematics for a variac i think ?  And Koz suggested a DC train transformer thing (although I've not seen one locally).  A transformer + rectifier would prolly be easy enough to build for my own 5V power source, but with MPJA/Jameco around that prolly have cheap enough 5 or 3.3V power supplies... meh ?

Then there's the acid stuff.  It's more or less a last resort though, simply due to how dangerous it is.



SemperFiGuy has one of my plated bullets just to see / hold on to as an example.  Did show Rod over at Moeller Arms some stuff, including the cut in half plate thing that DanW asked me to do.  Seeing how hard / thick the plate job is ... well ... it just helps to see it for yourself heh.

Buuutttttt... before most of the above:

after grabbers finalized, need to be able to plate, say, 200-500 rounds consistently
* batches of 25-100, depending on how long it takes to plate
* need to weigh before and after, to make sure each bullet is getting similar plating... this would basically just be a big spread sheet for before/after weights and differences.

they have to survive being put through a sizing die (already done a test size so am confident)

test fire my own 50-100 rounds from bags with barrel pics afterwards as well as target results

find a guinea pig or two to test fire a magazine or two

While I'll post finished plans, I can prolly go about building kits to sell if someone really wants a ready-to-go thing.  I'll prolly price a kit anyway just to see what the initial outlay would be.



Lastly, when I do eventually talk to the hawkbullets die guys, a lot of this may be moot hehe.  Swage dies are just sooooo cool.  Being able to use old brass cases or some kind of tubing to form a jacket would just obliterate this plating project.  And their swage dies are priced about on par with moderately priced reloading dies (rather than hundreds of $$$).

Similarly, might have to talk to Lee about getting some custom molds that are .395 instead of .401 or something.  This way it just does better.  Forgot what pricing on custom molds are ($70-$100 i think?).  Although for pistol plinking rounds, that prolly doesn't matter.  Rifle rounds would definitely want a smaller mold size so less chance of bullet deformation during sizing i'd guess ?

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #150 on: November 20, 2012, 07:02:28 PM »
Westlake/Ace Hardware had some 6-32 wingnuts in quantity so picked up a box of'em and matching machine screws.  $16 for 100 of both.

As far as the wingnut approach, it's looking spot on for 40S&W.



I have some concerns that the flat part of the wingnut at the 'vertex' of the U shape (if you will) ... that it might cause similar plating problems due to clearance issues (no plating will occur near that spot?).  I'll go ahead and make a clippy thing and plate some lead tonight after work and see how it turns out.

Along these similar lines, I wonder if a V shaped thing (or even a more exaggerated U), with some possibly thin wire running between the mouth tips of the V would avoid this proximity problem.

Of course, then the question becomes how to construct this V thing.  Using the stiffer gauge wire I've got would prolly work fine.  Not entirely sure how to get it to stay perpendicular to the popsicle stick though.  I'll fiddle with it while the bullet's plating tonight.



Edit: 

Decided to not inflate post count... but...

plastic tongue depressors appear to be the way to go for a replacement for the wood popsicle stick.

http://www.dealmed.com/Tongue-Depressors-N-S-6-Box-500

And several other stuffs...

There's a few medical things in town, I'll check those.  I'll prolly also eyeball walmart tonight on way home.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 10:35:51 PM by unfy »
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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copper plating - single clothespin successish
« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2012, 04:44:17 AM »
Walmart, Walgreens = no luck on tongue depressors.  Will try a few other places tomorrow.

Did some plating tonight with a single clip.  Copper don't like the wingnuts very much.. flakes off heh.

Clothespin setup is soooo easy to work with so far, loving it.  Need to dig up some plastic stick replacements as well as look into maybe an alternative to the wingnuts (but i do like them so far).



A completed clippy.  The dark color of the metal is cause the copper didn't like sticking to it.  The wire is run up to the secondary clippies grabby hole to make the conductive connection.

In the background you can see a bullet that was plated for 30min.  The claustrophic parts can be clearly seen but they weren't that big.





A single bullet, plated for 30min using the pin (as seen in prev pic), then pushed through a Lee sizing die to .400.  I tried to get one of the spots of the claustrophobic areas after being shoved through the sizing die.  Some lead is visible.  This is in two spots where sizing die scrunched it off.

Also, a kitty.

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline kozball

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2012, 09:32:36 AM »
Might try Kubat Pharmacy 558-8888. or Kohll's , Kohlls.com, or maybe a Vet supply store. TSC ??


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Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2012, 07:00:23 PM »
Looked around Kholl's near 52nd and L in Omaha, no luck (wood, but no plastic).  Also tried Michael's on Cornhusker near walmart/petco in Bellevue.  Lastly, tried CVS Pharmacy on Cornhusker / Galvin to no avail.

Kubat says they have a pharmacy thingie near 24th and L in Omaha, but I think that's just an in-emergicare-pharmacy or something.  Didn't drive to the one down town.  Will prolly give them a call on Friday / Saturday.

Kohll's website only lists wood, so that'll just be a no from them.

....

TSC ? tractor supply ? :) hehehehehe

I'll prolly just order them online if I find what I want in the next day or so.

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #154 on: November 21, 2012, 08:04:50 PM »
Ya know, trying to hunt down this plastic stuff is irritating as all holy hell.

There are some that are listed as 'flexible', which makes me a bit worried.

And apparently some are used for facial stuff (ie: facial spatula).... a search for that turned up an appropriate image:



Oh so rage worthy atm heh.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #155 on: November 22, 2012, 01:56:05 AM »
In the course of exploring ideas... picked up some staple gun staples from hardware store.

Using some pliers to form things with... it seems to stick on the wood really well.  Very stiff.  I don't foresee problems with it going flat against the stick etc.  Granted, this is wood, and the wingnut version has already shown some signs of getting looser.

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #156 on: November 22, 2012, 03:01:42 AM »
decided to cut up a plastic fork finally...

it's pretty quick to do, and... the results don't seem too bad:





now to see if i can figure out staple + plastic.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2012, 03:28:47 AM »



notching plastic with hack saw, then a file... it seems like it's very viable to use the staple.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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copper plating: single plastic clothespin hanger thing = works
« Reply #158 on: November 22, 2012, 05:55:52 AM »
Several pics in this update.



^ This is this is the plastic version of the clothespin, also using staples instead of wing nuts.  Off to the left is a bullet that was plated for 30min.





^ This is kinda blurry, but it shows the bullet as it sits in the clamps, and it's being lifted off of the table.  It's very stable contrary to what ya might think.





^ This is that same bullet rammed through the sizing die.

There's no lead spots, the two dark spots are where the staples were grabbing the lead. There's a matching 2 spots on the opposite side.



This was a HUGE success.  Working with the double clothespin for the actual plating process is stupidly simple and zero hassle.  OMG it's so nice compared to the wire hangers (not as cool as the basket tho heh... but at least THIS WORKS).

I will probably wait until friday and the hit hardware stores yet again to see what I can come up with for smaller bolt/nut sets for attaching the plastic, and if rubber washers are cheap.  zip ties work, but i'd like something less prototype-y.

I do have left over bicycle tubing i can cut up, but would just rather not :P

Today (thursday), I'll be fiddling with steel wool mitten and stuff to see what I can come up with.
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline unfy

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Re: Copper Plating
« Reply #159 on: November 24, 2012, 01:34:20 AM »
picked up a bunch more hardware (nuts/bolts/etc)... wanted smaller stuff for attaching plastic fork ends to clothespins.  also grabbed a 17 drawer organizer thing from menards for $6... seeing as how i've kept all my hardware in a grocery bag.  over the past year, i've collected enough to fill the fill it :(

cut off the heads of ~75 forks, gonna notch and drill them shortly.

steel wool mitt is a failure.

i've got a battery operated drill i might be able to use with a wire brush wheel or construct some kind of steel wool round thing for, i dunno.  open to suggestions on how to physically rough up the lead prior to plating, tho.


hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D