Author Topic: carry a loaded Glock with one in the chamber? (Read 14843 times)

y0diggity · « **on:** December 27, 2011, 10:41:19 PM »

Do you Glock-carriers keep it ~~cocked~~ loaded while you're carrying? I'm curious about your experiences since its a fairly passive safety system on it.

Thanks!

DaveB · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2011, 10:48:48 PM »

Always, and a good holster to keep it in.

Dan W · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2011, 10:52:57 PM »

You need to research how a Glock works. It can not be "cocked" without pulling the trigger fully to the rear to load the firing pin spring. And the firing pin safety blocks the movement of the firing pin until the trigger is pulled.

So, technically, a Glock is never cocked until the instant before the firing pin is released.

Maybe you mean carrying with a round in the chamber?

DaveB · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2011, 11:23:04 PM »

I guess that I figure that one in the chamber is what was meant. It is possible to carry with one in the hole and still need to rack the slide, but you're going to toss number one out.

Chris Z · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2011, 11:36:51 PM »

Quote from: Dan W on December 27, 2011, 10:52:57 PM

You need to research how a Glock works. It can not be "cocked" without pulling the trigger fully to the rear to load the firing pin spring. And the firing pin safety blocks the movement of the firing pin until the trigger is pulled.

So, technically, a Glock is never cocked until the instant before the firing pin is released.

Maybe you mean carrying with a round in the chamber?

Dan is dead on with this one....... A Glock with a round in the chamber is ready to fire, but the gun IS NOT COCKED until you pull the trigger. It is a "Double Action Only" gun.

When you pull the trigger on a Glock, the back of the trigger bar "cocks" the firing pin, then releases it.

DanClrk51 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2011, 04:35:14 AM »

Yes, my Glock 19 is carried with 16 rounds in the gun (15 in magazine 1 in chamber)

.......and also in a holster that covers the trigger (Galco Stow 'n Go inside the waistband).

y0diggity · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:06:03 AM »

Exactly what I mean, Dan. I just wasn't sure how exactly to say it. Thanks.

sjwsti · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:08:26 AM »

I carry my Glock loaded and ready to go. You need to carry your weapon in a condition that makes it ready to use. Thinking about carrying without a round chambered? Read this thread; http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,4588.0.html

To be safe carry your Glock chambered in a properly fitted holster, on a properly constructed belt.

Practice drawing over and over again observing proper technique (Safety tip: finger off trigger until muzzle is on target and you have made a conscious decision to fire) this will eventually need to be done quickly.

Now practice re-holstering over and over again observing proper technique (Safety tip: finger off trigger, all clothing, gear, drawstrings, whatever cleared and away from the holster) do this slowly and deliberately. Never be in a hurry to re-holster.

People run into problems when during the draw they are too quick to get their finger on the trigger. There are a number of unconscious physical reactions that will make your hand contract, and if your finger is on the trigger you will have a negligent discharge. Everyone should know what these unconscious physical reactions are.

Same thing happens during re-holstering, finger on trigger, insert into holster = boom. Or you get some part of your gear or clothing caught in the holster that also results in a NG. This has happened numerous times at Front Sight as well as here in Nebraska at at least two CCW classes that I know of (not mine because we discuss this very subject at length)

Both of these problems can be traced to a lack of training and/or carelessness. Get some training, practice regularly and you will begin to feel more confident.

- Shawn

Dan W · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2011, 12:07:15 PM »

My G30 is never carried with an empty chamber...never

HuskerXDM · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2011, 12:37:37 PM »

Obviously not just for Glocks...

See myth number 2:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/18228/concealed-carry-myths/

NENick · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:19:37 PM »

Quote from: HuskerXDM on December 28, 2011, 12:37:37 PM

Obviously not just for Glocks...

See myth number 2:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/18228/concealed-carry-myths/

That was a well written article. My girlfriend and her family immediately came to mind $:-\$

dcjulie · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2011, 03:59:32 PM »

This is a good article! I can remember many years ago going to Scheel's in Lincoln to buy my second (or third, I can't remember) gun and the sales guy actually told me "Women should only shoot .22's, they aren't strong enough for anything larger." Mind you, I'm NOT a small female! I can shoot .45 without a problem, so this guy was just being a jerk. I made him get his manager while I explained to them, very kindly, that women can and do shoot centerfire just fine and if it is the store's opinion that females only shoot .22's I would NEVER buy anything from them again. I did not buy a gun from Sheel's that day, and have not done much gun shopping there since that incident.

As far as concealed carry is concerned, one should be carried in the condition of readiness. In a holster! If trigger is not pulled back, the gun will not fire. Simple!

unfy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:12:43 PM »

Shawn / sjwsti's Self Defense Class at the Bullet Hole changed a lot of my mindset concerning how to carry a weapon, safeties, and such. Excellent instructor that focused on getting his students to think about things rather than just "here are some rules".

The weapon is under your control, you pay it necessary respect and give it a proper living space (ie: holster & belt), and you should have no problem. Why lose precious time in a bad situation by having to rack the slide ? What if you CAN'T rack the slide for whatever reason ?

Modern firearms generally have to have their trigger squeezed in order to discharge. As long as the holster is properly formed to cover / protect the trigger area you should have no problems.

I carry a Sig p229 with a DA/SA trigger (ie: has a hammer). There's always one in the chamber. With the Crossbreed holster and a thick belt I've had zero problems out of my setup. There was a single time when I stood up from an office chair after lazily lounging in it and heard the 'click' of the hammer being pulled back against the bottom of the arm rest (amazing what that sound can do to you hehe). I've debated getting a DAO trigger system installed, but I like the weapon as it is (and practice the heavy DA pull with light SA follow ups).

With the Glocks I've handled, I would feel completely safe holstering one with a round in the chamber (and note, I hate Glocks). Proper respect, practice draw & re-holster, and proper holster ... and you should be good to go IMHO.

dcjulie · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:35:24 PM »

unfy - your tagline is great! but, hoppe's #9 is AWESOME!!

Roper · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2011, 09:02:35 PM »

Always...

armed and humorous · « **Reply #15 on:** December 30, 2011, 04:05:29 PM »

I will agree that carrying a round in the chamber is the way to go if your only concern is being able to defend yourself as best you can. I will not, however, criticize anyone choosing to opt for an empty chamber for the sake of safety. We all know the safety rules, and ideally we all obey them at all times. In reality, that doesn't always happen. People make mistakes, have lapses of memory, or errors in judgement, despite their best intentions. With a round in the chamber, especially on a Glock (with no actual safety), all it takes if for someone to pull that trigger, and bad things may result. At least, with an empty chamber, a person would pretty much have to know what they were doing, and intend to fire a round, for that gun to go off. That's not to say that a child may not come upon an unattended gun and fool around with it long enough to chamber a round and pull the trigger, but the chances are much less than simply pulling the trigger alone. Even an adult, might find the gun and assume it is not loaded. Or, a bad guy might surprise you and get your gun from your holster before you have a chance to react. If all he has to do is pull the trigger, you don't have much of a chance. If he has to chamber a round first, it might give you just enough time to avoid being shot with your own gun.

Again, I'm not saying a well-trained gun handler shouldn't carry a round in the chamber. I'm just saying we shouldn't be so quick to chastise others for choosing to go another way. Going armed at all is a choice; so is chambering a round.

Randy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2012, 06:06:00 PM »

Always one in the chamber.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2012, 11:03:03 PM »

As the Gunwise on this forum well know, Col. Jeff Cooper systematized the fundamental carry methods thusly:

Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.
[Above information courtesy of Wikipedia.]

The issue discussed here in the forum is Condition Two vs. Condition 3. [Also known as IDF Technique or IDF Carry because many members of the Israeli Defense Force carry in such manner.]

If anyone wishes to explore this issue beyond what has been posted on this forum, all that's needed is to Google "IDF" with some additional qualifiers, depending on what you might wish to explore.

Lotsa opinions out there. Somewhere there are those which will surely match your own.

sfg

armed and humorous · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2012, 12:51:39 PM »

HuskerXDM:

Just to clarify, I'm not saying people should not keep a round in the chamber. I think it is a personal choice and that everyone should respect that choice. As for the "myth" link you posted, I find it somewhat ironic that the author suggests it is imperative to carry a round in the chamber and uses the following statement to make his point:

"One of the most dangerous aspects of this practice is you wind up playing the “Is my gun loaded or not?” game. It also leads to “It’s alright, the chamber is empty,” type of thinking. Loaded guns are safe guns because people treat them with respect. I once had a pistol fired into the ground 2 feet from me because the shooter thought the chamber was empty, so it would be safe to dry-fire."

The last sentence of that paragraph makes my point from my earlier comment very well. The author states that people treat loaded guns with respect, and yet a person fired a round two-feet from him because he thought the chamber was empty. This points out one very important thing: not everyone always follows the safety rules when it comes to handling guns (aren't all guns supposed to be treated as if they are loaded and only pointed in a safe direction?). Also, as much as we'd like to think that our training will prevail in any circumstance, it is painfully obvious that even trained individuals don't always react properly under stressful situations.

Consider this scenario: A person who knows guns and gun handling fairly well gets a CHP and decides to carry. However, he also knows that he has not undergone sufficient training that will guarantee his reaction will be appropriate (if there is such a thing), but his buddies convince him that the only way to carry is to have one in the chamber at all times. Now, he's walking his dog down the street one night when a couple of thugs spring from behind some bushes wielding baseball bats and demand he turn over his valuables. He figures he can get his Glock out of his IWB before they can do him serious harm with their bats, so he goes for it. In the excitement, he forgets to keep his finger off the trigger until he's ready to fire, and the gun goes off as he pulls it from the holster, fatally wounding him by severing his femoral artery. Had this guy been left to choose on his own, he may have opted to leave the chamber empty. Maybe he would have had time to chamber a round and defend himself, or maybe not, but at least he wouldn't have shot himself in the process.

Now that may be a stretch, but we each have to make our own decisions. You may think that if the guy was that unsure of himself that he didn't want a round in the chamber, he shouldn't be carrying at all. However, it's not your decision to make.

When you think about it from a survival standpoint, you should probably be advocating that everyone but yourself keeps an empty chamber. You would be much safer!

sjwsti · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2012, 06:24:29 PM »

Quote

Consider this scenario: A person who knows guns and gun handling fairly well gets a CHP and decides to carry. However, he also knows that he has not undergone sufficient training that will guarantee his reaction will be appropriate (if there is such a thing), but his buddies convince him that the only way to carry is to have one in the chamber at all times. Now, he's walking his dog down the street one night when a couple of thugs spring from behind some bushes wielding baseball bats and demand he turn over his valuables. He figures he can get his Glock out of his IWB before they can do him serious harm with their bats, so he goes for it. In the excitement, he forgets to keep his finger off the trigger until he's ready to fire, and the gun goes off as he pulls it from the holster, fatally wounding him by severing his femoral artery. Had this guy been left to choose on his own, he may have opted to leave the chamber empty. Maybe he would have had time to chamber a round and defend himself, or maybe not, but at least he wouldn't have shot himself in the process.

Sounds like his buddies knew what they were talking about. An unloaded gun isn't good for much.

I'm sure in his CCW class his instructor emphasized the need to keep his finger off of the trigger while unholstering, I'm sure he also was told that he should seek out some advanced training.

But like many gun owners he ignored this advice. I'm mean really, who has time for that. He`s busy, moneys tight (especially after he spent $500 on a new Glock, more on a CCW class, holster and ammo..) and the reality is he just doesn't care that much.

Ignorance and carelessness both bit this guy in the behind. Fortunately we don't have to follow in his footsteps.

If your not comfortable carrying a weapon chambered, get comfortable. To do that will take time and effort. There many excellent training opportunities available in this area that are very affordable. Take advantage of them.

To be blunt, there is nothing I hate more than lame excuses. I don't have time; make educating yourself a priority and you will make time. I'm too old/fat/out of shape; Last summer I watched a 60 year old active duty LEO do 5 days of very tough, very advanced training, 8-10 hrs a day in +100 degree temps and not complain once. There was also an Iraq vet there who had lost most of his primary hand in an IED attack who out shot and out fought many of the other students. I cant afford it; you could afford that gun your carrying, the mandatory CCW class fee and registration fee. Make it a priority and you can set aside the money.

Do you have to do this. Of course not. You are free to do as you like. Right now I'm reading a book by Paul Howe on leadership and training. In the dedication he says this when thanking the men and women of the Armed Forces " Its` mediocrity [The Army] pushed me to improve and Special Ops gave me a home to grow. Special thanks to the NCO`s who set the example and taught me to push farther and faster with greater precision, not because it was required, but because it was the right thing to do. And also for the confirmation in doing what is right versus what is popular"

- Shawn