Bank Inside Grocery Store

[blind_hunter]

Since financial institutions are a listed as a place where you cannot CCW in Nebraska...what about a grocery store or other business that is not posted as no-carry that has a bank inside?  This is very common in Omaha and I was curious if anyone has some insight on this.

[Wildgoose]

Good post! This is a good example of just how confusing and foolish the regulations can be that were necessary to get CCW past our brilliant law makers. My take would be that as long as you don't go into the area marked off as a bank its not a problem. You would still be in a grocery store. Just my opinion but these are the kind of things those of us who choose to exorcise our rights have to put up with in order to do so.

[metaldoc]

Many Wal-Mart stores also have banks located inside their buildings.   It would be good to have clarification on this before someone finds themselves inadvertently in trouble.

I really have trouble understanding the prohibition of CC in banks anyway.  Not like a robber would see the prohibition and say, "Whoops, I can't rob this place... I can't take my gun in..."

[armed and humorous]

I agree with Wildgoose.  The law is not clear on this, but having discussed it with a number of people, the general consensus is that as long as you don't approach the bank area itself for any purpose (in other words, just passing by would be okay), you won't run afoul of the law.  Still, if someone "made" you and called authorities, you might be in for a hassel at least and possible charges depending on the cop, the prosecutor, and how you respond to the situation.  My guess is that as long as you cooperate and show respect for the officer (just doing his job), you'd be free to go soon (unless you have other legal issues like a stack of parking tickets, and outstanding warrant, or a record a mile long).  Personally, I never worry about that circumstance, as unless something happens that requires you to pull your weapon, no one will ever know I was carrying anyway.  If something does happen that requires me to pull my firearm, I'm not going to care what the law says at that point.

I see metaldoc posted while I was writing.  Agreed, the whole concept of preventing a bank robbery (for example) by making guns illegal in them is preposerous.

[bullit]

Keep you gunside foot touching the grocery store floor.....

[Mudinyeri]

"Financial Institution", as defined by Nebraska Revised State Statute 8-101-12:

(12) Financial institution means a bank, savings bank, building and loan association, savings and loan association, or credit union, whether chartered by the United States, the department, or a foreign state agency; any other similar organization which is covered by federal deposit insurance; or a trust company

Since the term "bank" is used in the definition of "financial institution", we should probably define bank.  Fortunately for us, the state has done so in SS 8-101-5

(5) Bank or banking corporation means any incorporated banking institution which was incorporated under the laws of this state as they existed prior to May 9, 1933, and any corporation duly organized under the laws of this state for the purpose of conducting a bank within this state under the act. Bank means any such banking institution which is, in addition to the exercise of other powers, following the practice of repaying deposits upon check, draft, or order and of making loans

The terms "savings bank", "building and loan association", "savings and loan association", and "credit union" are not defined in SS 8-101.

Clear as mud?

Personally, I'd probably err on the side of conservatism and consider a retail branch of a bank ... a bank.

[SemperFiGuy]

Can't Nobody Loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggjump Any More???

sfg

[Mudinyeri]

Can't Nobody Loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggggjump Any More???

sfg

Able to leap small banks in a single bound?

[LawyerJan]

www.chaimcartoons.com has a great cartoon about the issue of CC in prohibited places.  A bad guy using a bow and arrow during the hold up.  Also one with two bad guys realizing they can't take their guns into a bank when robbing it.

I rationalize my carry in stores with banks like this.  (This is not to be considered as legal advice, just my personal feelings). If the bank, inside the store has a separate door that you must enter to transact business, its a financial institution within the meaning of the Concealed Carry law (and you should stay out of the bank portion if you're carrying).  If the store only has a counter with some tellers behind it, but its part of the store not a separate store within a store, it doesn't fall under the prohibited places. 

I've run this past a couple other lawyers who are familiar with the law, they recommend not carrying in the store whether the "bank" in the store has a separate door or just a teller counter.  They say if I'm going to ignore their "don't carry advice" they suggest not coming close to the bank part of the store and certainly not transacting business at the bank.

[Mudinyeri]

Please define the term "door". 

[birddogne]

New to the site and my first post here.  By the way GREAT site.

I just took my CCW class two weeks ago and this is one of the questions I asked the instructor.  He had never had this come up before.  We also had an attorney taking the class, he stated that if the issue happen to make it to court for carring in a store which allows carry but has a bank in it, he would argue that only the square footage of the building that the bank had rented from the store could be considered a no carry zone.

[unfy]

Not a lawyer, but I simply don't interact with any of the bank related persons when in a store that has a bank office situated inside.

The entire building isn't a bank IMHO - just the area rented from the parent store (as mentioned by birddogne).  Just to avoid further trouble, I wouldn't even use store facing tellers if you're armed.  Doing banking related stuff ? No weapon period.

People love to split hairs on details or talk about 'spirit of the law' depending on how things favor their view.  For me, avoiding the bank section (and not interacting with it), seems to satisfy both - you're not dealing with the bank, and by avoiding the tellers (although you might be standing on grocery store territory on your side of the counter) -- you're also in spirit of the law by not doing banking.

Or, like me, use the drive through teller things with the pneumatic tubes

[armed and humorous]

The way I look at it is like this:  if I'm carrying concealed, and nothing happens while I'm in the grocery store that has the bank inside to cause me to reveal my gun, no one's going to know I carried in there anyway.  If something does happen to prompt me pulling my handgun, I'm going to be more concerned with saving myself (and/or others) from the threat than worrying about whether I'm breaking the law at the time.  I would imagine, that in a case like that, the affirmative defense would take the place of my CHP being illegal at the time.  My understanding of affirmative defense is that if it turns out you needed your gun for self-defense, then you were justified for carrying it concealed in the first place.

[DaveB]

If I am going to a grocery store that has a bank in it, it doesn't matter. I am going to the grocery store. The bank is not part of the business I am partaking services of and has nothing to do with my reason for being there. If the toy bank in the grocery store get's robbed while I am there, that is too bad, they should have been in a secure building to begin with. If you are not banking, you are not carrying in a prohibited space, as long as you do not cross the imaginary line.

JMO of course.

[Husker_Fan]

The law prohibits carry in a financial institution and other parts of the statutes define those.  I figure that since the state doesn't regulate grocery stores with bank branches in them as financial institutions themselves, that's a good indication that the grocery store is not a financial institution.

[bullit]

The issue is now a moot point at Hyvee 70th and Pioneers in Lincoln.  Great West pulled out.  I am willing to bet this may become more frequent due to costs (except Wal Mart which owns their own bank i.e. Arvest). 

[unfy]

The issue is now a moot point at Hyvee 70th and Pioneers in Lincoln.  Great West pulled out.  I am willing to bet this may become more frequent due to costs (except Wal Mart which owns their own bank i.e. Arvest). 

Just noted coincidence tonight when picking up a prescription at my Hyvee in the stockyards, omaha (36th & L) -- bank of the west is no longer in that store either.

Maybe Bank of the West or Hyvee changed their minds about something ?