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Author Topic: Am I Breaking the Law?  (Read 2747 times)

Offline whatsit

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Am I Breaking the Law?
« on: May 09, 2012, 04:56:37 PM »
I live in Lincoln. I shoot in Lincoln. I don't have a concealed carry permit.

Something occurred to me while I was moving my range bag from a friend's car to my own. Am I breaking the law by having my pistol "concealed" in my range bag? Can a walk across a parking lot with a pistol in a bag be considered breaking the law? For that matter, when I move my range bag from my trunk; into the shooting range -- same question: is this "technically" illegal?

I must be over thinking this -- otherwise a cop could sit outside of Thunder Ally and write tickets all day long!

I'll be interested to hear your input oh wise ones.  ;)
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Offline JimP

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2012, 06:46:54 PM »
What is "concealed" and what is not seems to be up to the discretion of the LEO on scene, and then up to the prosecutor, if he wants to push it.  Either you can get your CHP, or you can hope Officer Friendly does not call in sick and Officer Ramrod or worse yet, Officer Onlyone fills in for him..... you pays yer money and takes your chances .......
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 09:14:50 PM »
One factor to be considered is the location of the ammunition during transport.

Any of these conditions:
Round loaded in chamber and slide down.
Cylinder fully loaded.
Loaded magazine inserted into the magazine well (even if chamber is empty)
Loaded magazine/speedloader in same case as empty handgun.

describes a handgun ready to be drawn and fired, even if in a bag in the trunk.    It's a concealed weapon, rather than a handgun in transport mode.

Best to transport the handgun completely unloaded, with a cable gun lock through the bore or magazine well.     All in a locked hard sided handgun case.    And all ammunition likewise separately transported in a different locked case.

Then all locked cases go into the locked trunk.

Anything less than this locked-empty-and-locked-in-trunk condition makes it easier for the LEO to decide to write you up and harder for your attorney to win your case.

Getting your CHP negates all the above.

Of course, if you should get busted first, then a CHP is off the table for about ten years.  And Bye-Bye forever to that Custom Kimber Commander.


sfg


« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 09:21:22 PM by SemperFiGuy »
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 11:44:29 PM »
Since it's Lincoln, is it illegal to carry a gun in plain sight while transporting it to the range? I didn't think it was illegal to have a gun in the state if it is not concealed, as far as I know, it's still legal to have a loaded gun on the seat next to you without a concealed permit.
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Offline bullit

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 07:02:46 AM »
There is NO LAW forbidding the Open Carry of a handgun in the state of Nebraska.  Omaha has made up a law (that someone with big bucks can challenge the consitituionality of it) that one must have a permit issued by them to Open Carry in Omaha.
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 09:01:42 AM »
City of Lincoln, NE municipal codes regarding handguns are fairly short in length and clear in statement.

They can be found here:  http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/attorn/lmc/index.htm

The code of most interest is Chapter 9.36 Weapons.   Start with a click on Title 9.

Not much in there about handgun transport.    Anyone wishing to determine what actually happens in past cases will need to dig around in the court transcripts.

Lincoln does have that odd law against leaving a firearm in a motor vehicle for more than 24 hours:   9.36.110 Firearms in Unattended Motor Vehicle; Unlawful.    [Watch those shotguns in your RVs.]

Happy reading.    [If you read this stuff late at night, it will help you go right to sleep.    Some of it will make you wake up with a start in the middle of the night.]


sfg
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 09:04:55 AM by SemperFiGuy »
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Offline whatsit

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 10:21:45 AM »
Open carry is actually something that came to mind. However, I'm under the opinion that walking across a parking lot with a gun on your hip is going to draw more attention and is more likely to result in a call to the cops (man with a gun!) than a man with a bag. It's the catch 22 of living in a state where you have to be permitted to exercise your 2nd amendment right -- in any way you want. :( The constitution doesn't specify "how."

Anyway, I'm preaching to the choir, I'm sure.

Thanks for the info. A concealed carry permit is certainly in my future, I think.
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Offline bullit

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 12:25:09 PM »
If your concerned about OCing at the range, I doubt the Po Po is going to even think twice about.  Thunder Alley especially .... as many LEOs practice there.
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Offline rugermanx

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 01:06:44 PM »
Take this for what its worth... 2nd hand info. So let your discretion guide you. Heard about a case where someone was charged with concealed carry since the handgun box in the backseat of the car (no ammunition anywhere in the vehicle) was lacking a visible lock. The handgun in the box even had a trigger lock. Once again second hand info which has not been vetted. However it made me rethink how I transport handguns to and from the range.
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Offline whatsit

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 01:23:46 PM »
So, I can spend $100 for two safes (one for the gun, one for the ammo) that will sit in my trunk. Or, I can spend that money on a CHP. I'm leaning toward the CHP. Although, you'd still have to lock up your ammo, I guess? I haven't read anything about locking up the ammo other than it is a "best practice." Is there a law about this?

Thanks for the great insight everyone. Keep it coming!
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Offline rugermanx

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 01:51:05 PM »
Personally I carry my pistol in a pelican case with my ammo in a separate box. I chose the pelican for quality and with the thought that it would be TSA accepted as well. But you could simply get a doskosport and snap a masterlock on the outside. (not saying don't get the CHP I strongly recommend that). I talked to a lawyer at some point that was explaining that 1 inch of a gun being carried openly could be considered concealed so I took that to mean that the above story was plausible.  So with all that in mind I chose not to ask for trouble considering my luck. (murphy's law: if it can go wrong it will.)
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 04:08:05 PM »
Shooters tend to search for the Clearly Written Black and White about issues like handgun transport, open carry, and so forth.

However, they search in vain.    The Devil is in the Details and very few of the details are actually written down any where.   When they are written in the law, they vary all over the jurisdictional maps, with inconsistency and confusion being the only constant.

Other significant variables are (a) the arresting LEO, (b) the LEOs superiors (who may or may not push the violation), (c) the prosecuting attorney's office and case backlog, (d) your lawyer's skills and knowledge, and (e) the judge.

Wish it weren't so.    But it is.

Best case is to do the maximum:  unload everything, break the handgun down into components,  lock everything in a locked and inaccessible place, like the trunk.    And keep the ammunition both separate and locked.

And get a CHP.    Open carry is a Fine Theory.    [But......You will meet a lot of LEOs whose excitement level is heightened and whose hands are right close to those Glock .40S&Ws.    And you might well eat some gravel before it's all straightened out.]

Anything less increases the risk to the Shooter.


sfg
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 07:54:54 PM »
Nebraska law defines  a concealed handgun.

And I am not  lawyer and I know this. Note the "capable of being seen" language.

Thus the Walgreen's defender was not charged with concealed carry in that defensive shooting.

Even Marty Conboy referred to this statute when asked why no charges were to be brought


Quote
69-2429. Terms, defined.

For purposes of the Concealed Handgun Permit Act:

(1) Concealed handgun means the handgun is totally hidden from view. If any part of the handgun is capable of being seen, it is not a concealed handgun;
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Offline Famous556

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2012, 06:44:47 PM »
Quote from: Dan W on May 10, 2012, 07:54:54 PM
Nebraska law defines  a concealed handgun.

And I am not  lawyer and I know this. Note the "capable of being seen" language.

Thus the Walgreen's defender was not charged with concealed carry in that defensive shooting.

Even Marty Conboy referred to this statute when asked why no charges were to be brought



I realize that this thread is over a month old, but I wanted to clear this up.  I also searched through news stories and couldn't find an answer to this specific query.

Wasn't the gentleman in that case INITIALLY charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a permit?  As I recall he was charged initially then JMD successfully argued this and the charges were dropped at that point. 
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Offline AAllen

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2012, 07:34:49 PM »
OPD refered it to the prosicutor without arresting, JMD argued the case in the press before anything could be done by the prosicutor and he decided not to press charges as per Dan's comment.
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Offline xwing

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Re: Am I Breaking the Law?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 02:23:42 PM »
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