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Author Topic: Research on Reloading 9mm  (Read 11340 times)

Offline jonm

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2012, 08:34:37 PM »
Precision Delta is a little cheaper, true.  The $78/K price is for the 115s, though.  It is $81/K for the 124s (if ordering over 10K.)  Still slightly cheaper than MG, though.
You are right. I got my weights mixed up.

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2012, 09:42:06 PM »
If you guys are interested in a bulk buy I have a dealer account with Graf's because of my C&R license and I can usually get some good deals.  I need some more 9mm so I'm probably going to be putting one in soon.  I've been shooting Missouri Bullet Co. cast bullets but I'm tired of scrubbing lead from my bore, so I think I'm going to switch to Berry's plated bullets.  Just depends whether my cheapskate nature wins out over laziness  ;D

I don't have the numbers anymore, but I once calculated my savings for 9mm and it was pretty significant. I also shoot a lot of oddball stuff, so reloading is the only way to go there.  You won't find .577 Snider on the shelf at Cabelas.  My 45-70 gets fed 540 grain cast lead bullets and black powder.  I could buy those loads, but they would probably cost $30-$40 a box.

Like jth said, you really don't need to figure the cost of brass, especially for shooting handguns.  I've never bought unfired 9mm brass, and I have plenty of it still laying around waiting to be cleaned.

I really need a progressive press, but right now I use a Lee turret press for handgun.  I can crank out about 200-250 rounds per hour.  I usually just split it up over the course of several days and do all my 9mm loading for the year at once.


Offline jonm

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2012, 10:07:15 PM »
If you guys are interested in a bulk buy I have a dealer account with Graf's because of my C&R license and I can usually get some good deals. 
Let me know. I have almost shot out all of my 124gr Berry's and would love more.

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2012, 08:11:00 PM »
jthhapkido,

18,000+ rounds this year?!  :o I'm going to have to find another source of income if I'm going to every become competitive.   :'(

Thanks for the reply.  You have confirmed what I suspected regarding savings through reloading.  You can't just buy in bulk.  You have to buy in BULK to make reloading cost effective.  Thankfully, my friend has a nice progressive press that he said I could use.  We will see how that works out and if it messes up any of the reloading he is doing.  That will save considerably on the initial outlay of cash.  The only remaining question is where will the money come from to shoot THAT much even if I save money on reloading.

Fly
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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2012, 08:13:52 PM »
One additional question for jthhapkido.  How much research went into the powder weight (or any other reloading factors) to come up with the load you shoot?  Like I said earlier, my friend can work the details to the Nth degree, but I can't imagine it is necessary to be that precise for handgun reloading.

Fly
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Offline jonm

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2012, 08:22:10 PM »
jthhapkido,

18,000+ rounds this year?!  :o I'm going to have to find another source of income if I'm going to every become competitive.   :'(

Thanks for the reply.  You have confirmed what I suspected regarding savings through reloading.  You can't just buy in bulk.  You have to buy in BULK to make reloading cost effective.  Thankfully, my friend has a nice progressive press that he said I could use.  We will see how that works out and if it messes up any of the reloading he is doing.  That will save considerably on the initial outlay of cash.  The only remaining question is where will the money come from to shoot THAT much even if I save money on reloading.

Fly
you can buy by the 1000 and have it still be cost effective. It's just that if you buy more at a time, it will obviously be cheaper. 9mm isnt where the money is saved though, it is with rifle rounds and large/odd caliber handgun rounds.

Offline JTH

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2012, 05:49:51 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  You have confirmed what I suspected regarding savings through reloading.  You can't just buy in bulk.  You have to buy in BULK to make reloading cost effective.  Thankfully, my friend has a nice progressive press that he said I could use.  We will see how that works out and if it messes up any of the reloading he is doing.  That will save considerably on the initial outlay of cash.  The only remaining question is where will the money come from to shoot THAT much even if I save money on reloading.

Less than you might think.  Again, buy 5000 primers from Guns Unlimited, one 8lb keg of powder from the same place, and get together with two friends who each need 4000 bullets---that'll get you the three-case price from Montana Gold.  That's more than enough components for 4000 rounds. 

One way of looking at it is this:  If you do the above, your cost is around $6.50 per 50 rounds if you reload, and buying factory loads is about $9.50 per rounds (for cheap plinking ammo).  So, you are really only saving about $3.00 per box.  That doesn't sound like much, right?

Another way of looking at it is this:  You can make ~125 rounds for the price of buying 100 rounds.  ---one quarter more rounds for the same price.  If you shoot 4000 rounds in a year, you'll save $240 and you'll still have enough powder left over for next year (and most of the following year), plus 1000 primers left.   (I'll note that'll mean your price per 50 rounds the following year will be about $5.06.  So you'll save more.  And have enough powder for 3/4 of the following year, plus half of your primers already paid for.)

What you have to do in exchange?  Pay in terms of time reloading.  That's it.  I don't know about you, but I'll make that payment with a good progressive press.  Spend an hour a week for 10 weeks, and you'll have your 4000 rounds all loaded up---saving yourself almost $250 plus having all the ammo you need for the year.  If someone else has the press, so you don't have to buy it, so much the better.

If you don't have the press, about two years of shooting like that will pay for it---and every year after that will save you that amount of money.  If you end up shooting more than 4000 rounds, it'll just pay itself back sooner, and you'll save more.

Plus, you'll have better quality control for your ammo (at least compared to the cheap ammo whose factory prices we are using for comparison).


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Offline JTH

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2012, 05:53:24 PM »
One additional question for jthhapkido.  How much research went into the powder weight (or any other reloading factors) to come up with the load you shoot?  Like I said earlier, my friend can work the details to the Nth degree, but I can't imagine it is necessary to be that precise for handgun reloading.

Depends on what you want the round to do.  Merely cycle in your gun?  Pretty simple---look it up in a decent reloading manual, pick a powder/velocity in the middle of the spread, and there you go.  Nothing else needed.

You want it to feel like the rounds you carry for self-defense?  Then you'll need to be a little pickier.  Want it to be solidly competition-legal in terms of making Minor for USPSA?  Little more research, and some time with a chronograph.

Want it to be the best round, accuracy-wise, in your handgun plus all of the above?  Little more needed.  :)

I note a great place to start for that sort of thing is the BrianEnos forums---there are a couple of great sub-forums there that give all sorts of reloading recipes that work.  (Though any reload version will need to be checked in your specific gun, just to make sure.)
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Offline JTH

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2012, 05:59:43 PM »
you can buy by the 1000 and have it still be cost effective. It's just that if you buy more at a time, it will obviously be cheaper. 9mm isnt where the money is saved though, it is with rifle rounds and large/odd caliber handgun rounds.

Depends on your situation.  For me, 9mm IS where the money is saved, because of how much I shoot.  I shoot very little in the way of rifle rounds, so it isn't worth it to me to reload for that.

(For example, I mostly shoot Wolf ammo in my AR-15, and it isn't worth it for me to set up my 550 for rifle rounds.  And when I do need rifle rounds that are more accurate, I have a friend who'll load up as much as I want as long as I send him the components.  I pay him in extra primers, which is just like gold to a reloader. ;D  However, since I use Hornady V-max bullets, and just get 500 at a time, it isn't cheaper than standard .223 factory ammo, though it is cheaper than .223 precision ammo. )

For 9mm, though, I save over a thousand dollars a year in ammo costs.  Definitely worth it to me!

Even more importantly for people doing competitions, tuning a load to work perfectly in your gun while remaining legal for competition (in power factor) plus maximizing the accuracy potential---this is significant, particularly if you can add in some cost savings as well.
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Offline jonm

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2012, 07:33:10 PM »
Depends on your situation.  For me, 9mm IS where the money is saved, because of how much I shoot.  I shoot very little in the way of rifle rounds, so it isn't worth it to me to reload for that.
I was talking about the cost per round savings for larger calibers vs. 9mm.

I reload .223 with pulled 55gr FMJ, pulled powder, and wolf primers. Perfect plinking load. Cost is at .11/round. I HATE prepping brass though.

Offline khawes

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2012, 05:59:09 PM »
I would be VERY interested in going in together on a BULK purchase.   :)

KHawes

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »
I would be VERY interested in going in together on a BULK purchase.   :)

KHawes

Keep an eye on the forum.  I'm guessing someone will be putting together a group buy.

Fly
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Offline SemperFiGuy

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 10:04:51 PM »
The Great Unanswered Question Here is........

When is Tom going to put that Old, Dilapidated, Beat-Up, Worn-Out, Obsolete Dillon 550 reloading press up for bidding here on the Forum????   [Since he now has the New, Bright, Shiny, Superfast Dillon 1100 and no longer needs the 550.]


Just Wondering.

sfg

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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2012, 08:20:42 AM »
I would be VERY interested in going in together on a BULK purchase.   :)

KHawes

I'm planning to put in an order at Grafs.com in the next week or so.  I'll start another thread so as not to clutter up this one.

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 03:10:01 PM »
Just an update for the benefit of anyone else wondering how much reloading will save them.  I found a very useful spreadsheet to aid in the cost analysis.  It can be downloaded here.  The only thing that is not 100% accurate is the estimate of shipping costs.

Here is a screen shot of my calculations using the spreadsheet above for 9mm.  I tinkered a bit with the spreadsheet so I could add notes about the vendor and product.  I also changed the shipping cost structure so I could add shipping costs for each item if necessary.



So with everyone's help here, I found that I can save in the range of $8 to $15 per 100 rounds of 9mm when comparing it to commercial 124gr ammo. If I shoot only half as much as jhthapkido,s 18,000 rounds per year, reloading could save me $720-1,350.  Another way to look at it is that the reloaded ammunition will be only 48-58% the cost of the factory ammunition.

One major error I was making in my calculations was that I misplaced a decimal on the grains required per load.  Instead of "4.3", I had input "43" which erroneously increased the price per round.  Of course buying in quantities as suggested also brought the price down.  I am hoping that group buys (especially for powder and primer) will help bring it down even further.

Fly
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Offline JTH

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 09:48:15 PM »
Here is a screen shot of my calculations using the spreadsheet above for 9mm.  I tinkered a bit with the spreadsheet so I could add notes about the vendor and product.  I also changed the shipping cost structure so I could add shipping costs for each item if necessary.



So with everyone's help here, I found that I can save in the range of $8 to $15 per 100 rounds of 9mm when comparing it to commercial 124gr ammo. If I shoot only half as much as jhthapkido,s 18,000 rounds per year, reloading could save me $720-1,350.  Another way to look at it is that the reloaded ammunition will be only 48-58% the cost of the factory ammunition.


In general, unless you are buying a fairly obscure powder (Solo 1000 comes to mind) I really wouldn't bother buying powder online--the Hazmat fee kills you.  8lb of WSF at Guns Unlimited is $120 ($16 less than online)---and that, along with buying a full case of primers at a time ($129.99 at GU--same price as online) even with tax, is considerably less than online from your spreadsheet.

Oh---and the Montana Gold prices include shipping already.  So if you can find a couple of other people to each buy a case, bullets are about the same price, since shipping tends add money for other bullets.

Granted, I'm biased---I don't like plated bullets.  I know plenty of people do, and plenty of people use them.  I used Rainier plated bullets for several years, and they were ok---but for me, Montana Gold bullets were much more consistent.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 09:56:06 PM by jthhapkido »
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 10:21:26 PM »
The Great Unanswered Question Here is........

When is Tom going to put that Old, Dilapidated, Beat-Up, Worn-Out, Obsolete Dillon 550 reloading press up for bidding here on the Forum????   [Since he now has the New, Bright, Shiny, Superfast Dillon 1100 and no longer needs the 550.]




Just Wondering.

sfg



I'll start the bidding at $50.

Offline JTH

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2012, 10:00:54 AM »
I'll start the bidding at $50.

How about---never?  Or $20,000, whichever comes first?   ;D

(I need that one for when I finally have enough room to set up 2 presses at once so I can reload 9mm AND .223 at the same time.)
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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2012, 10:21:11 AM »
In general, unless you are buying a fairly obscure powder (Solo 1000 comes to mind) I really wouldn't bother buying powder online--the Hazmat fee kills you.  8lb of WSF at Guns Unlimited is $120 ($16 less than online)---and that, along with buying a full case of primers at a time ($129.99 at GU--same price as online) even with tax, is considerably less than online from your spreadsheet.

Oh---and the Montana Gold prices include shipping already.  So if you can find a couple of other people to each buy a case, bullets are about the same price, since shipping tends add money for other bullets.

Granted, I'm biased---I don't like plated bullets.  I know plenty of people do, and plenty of people use them.  I used Rainier plated bullets for several years, and they were ok---but for me, Montana Gold bullets were much more consistent.

Regarding Primers & Powder...I will have to check the Lincoln area to see if anyone has a similar good deal.  Otherwise, a drive to Omaha in my gas guzzler may not make it cost effective.

Regarding Montana Gold...The 124gr CMJ are back ordered.  I have an email in to them to find out when they might become available.  Apparently they are still trying to recover from your big two pallet order this last spring!  ;D

Fly
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 11:06:06 AM by OnTheFly »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Research on Reloading 9mm
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2012, 12:06:05 PM »
DE Guns gave me a fair deal on primers last time I bought  them. Nearly the same price as the web + hazmat. Call them and get a quote
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