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Author Topic: Internet hackers understand the 2A  (Read 2268 times)

Offline wallace11bravo

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Internet hackers understand the 2A
« on: January 12, 2013, 10:33:55 PM »
Just thought this was interesting. Not passing judgement one way or the other, just interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)

Although decentralized, these guys are no lightweights, being credited with such things as:

1) Shutting down several .gov.uk sights in response to "draconian surveillance policies"
2) Shutting down the Westboro Baptist Church website, twitter, FB, and changed the WBC desktop backgrounds to gay porn, and released an entire list of WBC's members, including SSNs
3) Shutting down several ugandan government sites in response to systematic genocide of homosexuals
3) Shutting down several syrian government sites
4) Shutting down the DOJ and FBI websites
5) Supposedly helped track down, shut down, and arrest operators of several kiddy porn sites
6) Credited with helping to circumvent gov censorship in Iran, N Korea, China, Libya, and Syria

Just to name some of the highlights.


Apparently we have computer hackers on our side?


Offline camus

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2013, 11:29:45 PM »
I think the longer version provides a bit more context to their message.

Other than that, they do celebrate personal freedoms, I guess.  I would question it's authenticity but if they probably would have shut it down by now.


They freak me out in any case.  :D
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 11:33:34 PM by camus »

Offline lneuke

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 11:40:03 PM »
It's definitely better to have them on your side...

Offline gsd

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 08:07:47 AM »
Given their far reaching capabilities, it is definitely better to know their standing.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline Chris C

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 08:47:45 AM »
I’ve seen saying for a few weeks now to friends just watch anonymous will get involved with this whole ordeal.  Glad they are. 

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 05:35:08 PM »
Anonymous is a group of hackers whose members reside in various  countries around the world.   Some, by their words  and actions appear to be highly trained in computers  and networks,  perhaps even professionally trained and holding advanced degrees.  Others appear to be self-taught but  bright individuals.   Some are just script copiers working out of their bedroom at  home or in mommy's  basement.   Some have been caught, and under government  pressure to avoid  threats of outrageous sentences  and fines  they turn on  those other hackers whose identities they know.    I suspect that eventually government hackers will infiltrate them and bring down whom they can, but others will just rise up.   All in all, they are just mischief to most sites.   Some  of their actions are no different than those of the Journal News, which released the names and addresses of CCW permit holders.

However, their citation  of "16 Am jur  2d sec 117 2d sec 256" as  proof for their claim  that no one has to obey unconstitutional laws is a  misunderstanding  of what the American  Jurisprudence is.   Here is an explanation:
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/library/research/tutorials/second/slides/upload/sec-sources-4.pdf

Briefly,  it is an encyclopedia of American law, not the law itself.  Lawyers use it to begin their overview of a case and follow the references  it cites to actual case law.   You  can buy the latest set of volumes of Amjur from Thomas Ruters WESTLAW store:
http://store.westlaw.com/american-jurisprudence-2d/2074/13504006/productdetail
It will set you back a mere $11,888.

As far as Anonymous' claim, their citation is a reference to other laws, like the following decisions:
Quote
All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void, Chief Justice Marshall, Marbury vs. Madison, 5, U.S. (1 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803).
which is getting back to  the time of the Framers  of the Constitution.  More recently:
Quote
RELYING ON SUPREME COURT IS NOT A CRIME.   Degrees of negligence give rise in the tax system to civil penalties. The requirement of an offense committed "willfully" is not met therefore, if a taxpayer has relied in good faith on a prior decision of this court. United States vs. Sullivan, 274 U.S. 259, 263-263-264 (1927) Holmes J. .

STATES MUST OBEY CONSTITUTION. The United States Supreme Court stated further that all rights and safeguards contained in the first eight amendments to the federal constitution are equally applicable in every State criminal action, "because a denial of them would be a denial of due process of law." William Malloy vs. Patrick J. Jogan, 378 U.S. 1, 84 S. Ct. 1489, argued Mar 5, 1964, decided June 15, 1964.


We find it intolerable that one constitutional right should have to be surrendered in order to assert another. Simmons vs. U.S. 390, U.S. 389 (1968)


The claim and exercise of a constitution right cannot be converted into a crime. Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489.


There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of Constitution rights. Sherar vs. Cullen 481 F 2D 946, (1973)

However, as far as the "Am Jur 16 2d sec 117 2d sec 256" quote is concerned I don't have a set of the AmJur and I haven't been able to find a source on the Internet so far which gives nothing more than that citation as proof of the claim that "unconstitutional laws do not have to be obeyed".  IOW, no direct citation  of US law.   Besides, even if a law is unquestionably  unconstitutional,  how will you defend yourself when  you are prosecuted for breaking it?  The  2nd  Amendment says that the Right to bear arms shall NOT BE INFRINGED, but over the last century at both the  state and  federal  level it has been infringed so much as to be meaningless, and all  in the name of  "safety and security" but we have less of either.    The  1st Amendment, for all practical purposes, is null and void.

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 03:08:45 PM »
I'm not real comfortable with having a group of internet thugs claim to support our side of the discussion.  For the most part these people are criminals and not persons I would associate with on either a personal or professional level. 

OTOH, I agree in principal with what the video states.  But I hold that the messenger is AS important as the messenger in this case, as it is in many cases.  I feel that this group could cause our pro-gun agenda far more harm than good if they use their normal methods of "protest".

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Offline CitizenClark

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2013, 04:23:21 PM »
.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 02:43:14 PM by CitizenClark »

Offline JimP

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 05:06:35 PM »
Quote
OTOH, I agree in principal with what the video states.

Those pesky principles so complicate life, do they not?
The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.  III.

Offline skydve76

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 07:17:33 PM »
a buncha geeks without girlfriends are not going to to much to help our cause by  shutting down websites.

Offline XDHusker

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 10:03:18 PM »
Personally I welcome the support.

On a side note, I genuinely love the diversity of people who support the 2A.  It crosses all boundaries including race, income, economics, etc...

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Offline unfy

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 01:06:45 PM »
I take umbrage at your claim that Anonymous is just a bunch of "internet thugs."

The days of 2600 and such are 'long gone' when it comes to 'Anonymous'.  These days it's a core group of people who attempt to sway the masses and similar.  They either need to make the masses like their cause, or they need to use causes the masses prefer.  These days it's just a flash mob who click on a link for their browser to do some some 'activism' for them, or they run a program with a script to auto perform their 'activism'.

The days of war dialing, phreaking, and such are less apparent these days, or sunk back into the shadows where it belongs :)
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 06:56:32 PM »
I take umbrage at your claim that Anonymous is just a bunch of "internet thugs."

Feel free, no skin off my nose.  :)

Over the last 5+ years “Anonymous” has delivered its own form of “justice” without due process, without care for the incidental effects their brand of vigilantism causes others than their intended targets, and have violated the laws of many countries.  “Thugs” is the most appropriate term for them that I can think of.

Ron
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Offline lneuke

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 08:17:44 PM »
Feel free, no skin off my nose.  :)

Over the last 5+ years “Anonymous” has delivered its own form of “justice” without due process, without care for the incidental effects their brand of vigilantism causes others than their intended targets, and have violated the laws of many countries.  “Thugs” is the most appropriate term for them that I can think of.

Ron


While I don't think vigilantism is always great, we definitely have a justice system that is barely worth a crap...I would be hesitant to defend it and our always logical laws...

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 06:51:40 PM »
Most of these Anons use one or two methods, along with TOR.

One method is a tool called  LOIC, or Low Orbit Ion Cannon, a reference to a space ship bombarding the surface  of the earth from low orbit.   Actually it is just a Denial of Service attack, DoS, in which a target server is hit with so many  ACK (acknowledge me!) requests that its Internet Protocol stack hangs up trying to service the requests.   They don't run the LOIC from their machine.  They upload an email with a virus or Trojan payload to  a  porn or gambling site, or a poorly admin'd Windows forum, and within a few days they'll have an LIOC Trojan on tens of thousands of Windows boxes.  Those captured Windows computers are called Zombies, and the collection of zombies is a called a Bot Farm.   Some WIndows bot farms were as big as 30,000,000.    From their own computers the Anon runs TOR (The Onion Ring), which connects to a series of server in a sequential chain, with their own IP address being replaced with a fake one, that fake one being replaced with another fake on at the next TOR server, until five or more servers later the packets are sent to their destination,  a command & control computer which has a list of the IP addresses of all the Zombies.  That C&C sends out the instruction received from the TOR chain, which usually includes the IP address of the target server, and the type  of attack to initiate.  When each of the Anons, with different TOR chains and different bot farms target the same server they can usually bring it, and every other server on that IP address down.   In the current IPv4 protocol a server can use the same IP address to host more than one site.    w.x.y.z:1, w.x.y.z:2, etc ... usually up to 256 sites.

Copies of the LOIC are usually obtained from what are known as Warez sites.   The problem, however, is that the FEDs have put out honeypots that contain LOIC copies that have back doors they control, which they can use to instantly shut down a bot.  They have done the same with copies of TOR.   They are catching the ignorant script kiddies but the pro Anons usually start from the LOIC source code and scrub it clean before they compile it.   That also assumes that they are compiling with a compiler that they also scrubbed the source on because an infected compiler can  leave back doors  in binaries compiled from clean source code.  Otherwise, they have to use a converter (or do it manually)  to convert the source code into assembler, from  there into binary.  There aren't one in a million coders who can do that.   And, just like an  author of a book, code writers leave their  own pattern, which is identifiable.  It's a very risky game to play and not get caught, eventually.

Sometime, through a TOR chain, they will manually attack an unpatched security hole  in a Windows OS to break into a server or workstation.   This is really  tricky to do and not set off alarms.  But, it is very difficult to secure a  Windows box, which is why I've been using Linux since 1998.  When they claim they have downloaded files from government or private computers it is usually because  they manually broke into the computer by using a security hole in Windows Explorer, Word, or some  ActiveX or .NET component of Windows.

I would NEVER do online banking or put my financial or private information on a Windows box and surf the web with it.   It has been estimated that 95% of all the Windows zombies found on bot farms were running active AV software.   How could  that be?   Before Symantec or Norton or Microsoft can add the signature of a new virus  to a vaccine dat file they first have to find one in the wild.  That means that one of you running Windows has to get infected, figure out what has happened, and report it to an  AV house or Microsoft.  By then it is too late for you.  If you never figure out that your Internet slowness or some of the strange behavior is because someone has turned your computer into a zombie then everything you have put  on it will be exposed, sooner or later.   Even if you discover it you have to wait until Microsoft, at its pleasure and financial willingness, decides to create a patch to fix the hole the virus or Anon took advantage of AND add the signature of the virus to the next dat file so folks can download it and update their AV subscription.  The "signature" is the first block  of hex bytes  at  the  beginning of an EXE, which is what most malware is.  Each is unique.  But, even a script kiddie can change the signature by moving some strings around, varying the wording a bit, or changing the order of some logic tests without changing the logic, then recompile.  Viola!  A "new" virus EXE that escapes detection by the latest dat file!   That's why  there are around 2 million "new" viruses or Trojans released against Windows every year.

Until MS releases that vaccine dat file or patch then you are just hanging in the winds of adversity hoping a bad guy doesn't come knocking on your port.  How long will you hang.   Microsoft always announces their patches as "zero day", which means they are claiming that they are releasing the patch and dat file the same day they discovered it.  The truth is that a "zero day" patch is rare.  Their usual practice is weeks and months.  Sometimes years, sometimes never.  They'll always suggest that you "upgrade" to avoid the security hole.  Nice for their bottom line, not for yours.

From my  observation, Anons are not the real danger  on the Internet.  The real Internet thugs are the professional hackers employed by governments and their military, and those employed by wealthy crooks.  The  first set are after industrial and military secrets and to do  what the US did with Stuxnet ... sabotage.   Because we are rapidly becoming the only country on earth to continue to use Windows in critical infrastructure our country is the most vulnerable to the first class of hackers.   Our middle class citizens, the  richest on the planet, are the targets of the second class of thugs.   They are why I run Linux.

Offline bkoenig

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Re: Internet hackers understand the 2A
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 07:03:00 AM »
Anonymous took down the U.S. Sentencing Commission website early this morning/late last night and made it user editable.  It's since been taken offlline.