< Back to the Main Site

Author Topic: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...  (Read 1836 times)

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« on: February 05, 2013, 01:02:39 PM »
Not this Sunday, but next Sunday...Steel Challenge match!

C'mon out.  We had a great turnout for the January match, and this one SHOULD be warmer.  (Well, that would be nice, at least.)

$15 at registration, show up at 7:30 to help set up!

Remember, we have centerfire pistol, rimfire pistol, and rimfire rifle divisions---so surely you've got SOMETHING you can shoot!  Details in the Intro to SC post at the top of the forum.

A note regarding rimfire rifles:

At the last match, there were some issues with rimfire rifles being picked up by the timers.  (Remember, the timers are SOUND-activated.  Without sufficient sound, they won't activate.   The timers need to be sensitive enough to pick up your shots, but not so sensitive that they pick up shots from different bays.) To fix this problem, we are doing a few things, and you'll need to do a few things. 

Your job:
1) Don't use suppressors, please. That's just not going to work, no matter how cool it looks, or how nice it sounds.
2) Please use standard or high velocity rounds.  Subsonic just isn't going to work.  (And seriously, it isn't like you need to reduce the recoil at all.)

Our job:
1) We went out to the range and tried a number of timers set on different sensitivity levels.  We found a set that works consistently with rimfire rifles---so that's what we'll use specifically for the rimfire rifles.
2) We'll be putting the rifle folks all together in a squad to make sure that they get the timer that is set up for them.

Here's the part you won't like:
We've done what we can to make sure the timer picks up your shots.  However, if it doesn't, it'll be a 30-second run.  In the match, you'll get three strikes, but on the third, we'll be giving the max time. 

What that means is that if for a particular string, the timer doesn't pick up your shots, we'll let you re-shoot the string.  In the match, we'll let you do this twice.  On the third time, though, (and every subsequent time) the time will be recorded as 30 seconds (the max time for a stage).  That's two passes per match, not per stage.

We've done what we can, and the timer we have set up picks up standard velocity ammo out of a rifle every time we shoot it.  Hopefully, we won't have any problems. 

Please make sure you are shooting standard or high-velocity ammo!  The quiet stuff will probably get you into trouble.

I've added this to the Introduction to Steel Challenge post at the top of the forum, too.  Pass the word around, please.
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline jonm

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 273
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 04:11:27 PM »
Sorry about the suppressor. I dont like shooting without it because my barrel stops 3" before the handguard. Once it came off, I didnt have to reshoot a run.

Fwiw, stamdard velocity 22 ammo is subsonic

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 04:34:03 PM »
Sorry about the suppressor. I dont like shooting without it because my barrel stops 3" before the handguard. Once it came off, I didnt have to reshoot a run.

It's all good.  Wish I'd seen it (and I want one!), just tough on the timer.  :)

Quote
Fwiw, stamdard velocity 22 ammo is subsonic

Yes, but....

....but it is normally only barely subsonic (and some are supersonic), and more importantly, if you buy "subsonic" .22 ammunition, it is a significant step down from "standard" .22 ammunition, even though both are generally subsonic.

Standard tends to be around 1000 to 1250, (1225 is approx the limit for supersonic, depending on temperature and such) and a lot of the ammo advertised as "subsonic" tend to be below 1000.

Just too quiet.  (We'd prefer all HV ammo, just to make sure....but we didn't want to limit people like that, due to ammunition issues right now.)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline jonm

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 273
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 05:50:09 PM »
I'll bring it next time and just be sure not to shoot with it. Now that football season is over, I will be able to stay for the whole match.

Offline abbafandr

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 891
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 06:05:32 PM »
Have there been any timer related issues with rimfire pistols, that you are aware of?

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 07:05:50 PM »
Have there been any timer related issues with rimfire pistols, that you are aware of?

None at all that I know about. 

Which makes me think that perhaps some people were shooting subsonic (very subsonic) ammo out of their rifles.  The long barrel makes it quiet enough---subsonics make it worse. 

Note:  that isn't an accusation at all---there isn't anything wrong with shooting any ammo you like, as long as it is .22 LR.  It just seemed odd that the timers wouldn't pick it up.

As jonm said, without the suppessor, he didn't have any problems.  Some other people still did, though---so I'm thinking quiet ammo.  Hopefully, with standard or high-vel ammo, (plus the adjusted timer) we won't have any more problems.
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline abbafandr

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 891
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 07:16:27 PM »
What is the advantage of subsonic versus the standard ammo (read cheap s**t) that I buy and shoot?

Offline jonm

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 273
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 03:36:02 AM »
Subsonic ammo doesnt make that supersonic-subsonic transition that destabilizes the bullet. The bullet will restabilize but it isnt consistant. Thats why all 22 match ammo is subsonic. Wont make a difference in this kind of comptition.


Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 06:52:23 AM »
Subsonic ammo doesnt make that supersonic-subsonic transition that destabilizes the bullet. The bullet will restabilize but it isnt consistant. Thats why all 22 match ammo is subsonic. Wont make a difference in this kind of comptition.

Yep.  Most high-velocity .22 rounds won't drop to the transonic level until about 50 yards (that's an approximate) and the farthest shot in Steel Challenge is 35 yards.

In some cases, it might hit that transonic level (close to the speed of sound in air) at 30 yards or so if the "high velocity" bullet wasn't very high velocity--which could technically have an effect.  However, there isn't much more distance to cover, so the deviation would be minimal. 

For these ranges with this size of target, it really doesn't make a difference.
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline jonm

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 273
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 07:57:30 AM »
Another thing to keep in mind is barrels around the 4.5" area will keep high velocity ammo subsonic in most situations. It wont matter for the timer since the blast is louder than the sonic crack.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 07:59:40 AM by jonm »

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 05:06:36 PM »
Hey!  HEY!

Match this Sunday.  Weather's supposed to be good.  Ringing steel will make you feel all skilled.

C'mon out.  :)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com

Offline abbafandr

  • Powder Benefactor
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 891
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 06:25:30 PM »
Compared to last time this will be a day on the beach ;D, can't hardly wait!

Offline JTH

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 2300
  • Shooter
    • Precision Response Training
Re: ENPS Steel Challenge match, February 17th...
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 07:01:02 PM »
56 shooters today---which beats the old February record by 10.  Excellent!

Match results are up:  http://www.easternnebraskapracticalshooters.com/2013/2013.htm

(And serious kudos to junior shooter Rachael Andersen, who in the last two months has dropped an average of 25-30 seconds from her match scores since last year--and while doing it, took first place in rimfire pistol optics last month, and 3rd this month!)
Precision Response Training
http://precisionresponsetraining.com