Lemi Shine in my sonic cleaner :(

[00BUCK]

I suppose if a person didn't have a tumbler, or after tumbling wanted to clean the primer pockets and insides of the case that soaking them in a Lemi Shine solution for several hours and then rinsing them out this might be acceptable. I've been seeing Lemi Shine pop up a lot lately so I figured I'd give it a try. The results were far less than acceptable but I am used to my current method giving me brass that, aside from resizing scuffs, comes out like brand new brass.

Each of the methods below was done after the cases were tumbled for a couple hours, decapped and resized with no case lube using carbide dies.

  I tried 2 different solutions in my Hornady Magnum Sonic cleaner.

First was ~3qt distilled water with 4 Tbsp of Lemi Shine at 135 degrees for 45 minutes. The primer pockets and insides were still fairly cruddy.

Second was ~3qt distilled water with 6Tbsp of Lemi Shine at 135 degrees for 45 minutes. Negligible difference in overall cleaning than the first solution. The biggest difference was the cases came out with almost an etched look to them. They didn't feel rough but looked terrible. I'm not so concerned with how they look but with that much abrasion (or whatever it did to the cases) and no real cleaning going on I consider this a fail.

  What does work well for me is ~3qt of tap water (that passes through our water softener) with 2 ounces of Hornady One Shot Sonic Cartridge Case Formula. This stuff isn't cheap but like I said early, it gets the brass perfectly clean. I've tried just about every concoction I've ever read about for sonic brass cleaning and nothing works like this stuff. I was hoping the Lemi Shine would work - even 90% as well - because it would reduce my overall reloading costs but it didn't even come close. I was hopeful.

 I guess for now I'll have to keep using the high dollar stuff until I find something that is an acceptable yet cheaper alternative.

[Neeco]

I just retumble them after decapping.  Once the brass gets components, it gets a wiped down at the end and that's it. 

[A-FIXER]

Thanks buck

[GreyGeek]

Lemi Shine appears to me to be Citric acid powder.  Like Lemon Juice, it should be rinsed off of the casing throughly or it could lead to discoloration.

What I found I  like about  Vinegar is that it evaporates when it dries, leaving no  residue.

[00BUCK]

Lemi Shine appears to me to be Citric acid powder.  Like Lemon Juice, it should be rinsed off of the casing throughly or it could lead to discoloration.

What I found I  like about  Vinegar is that it evaporates when it dries, leaving no  residue.

I really didn't think I would need to express that my cases get rinsed and dried very well after coming out of the sonic cleaner. Guess I should have.

What Lemi Shine did to the cases was more than just a discoloration and more of a dulling effect.

[unfy]

What I found I  like about  Vinegar is that it evaporates when it dries, leaving no  residue.

You should still 'de-activate' vinegar.  A rinse / quick soak in a bit of water with baking soda does that.

I'll have to post pics of some before / after with lots of times and stuff on what I use (link was in another thread).  Including something to where "i just want things clean enough to reload" attempts... rather than shiny and slightly more time consuming.

[Hank]

A friend of mine bought a very large sonic cleaner from a schools lab. I forget what he said he used in it but I will ask him.
Without a sonic cleaner;
What I have found to work very well is a 50/50 solution of Lime Away/water. I decapped a bunch of range brass (9mm/.223), brushed the primer pockets, then into the solution for ~10 minutes, slosh around ocasionally, then rinse with hot soapy water and let dry of course.
For many, this method alone would get brass plenty clean enough to reload, but I tumbled afterwards. Figure I get a little more mileage from the tumbler media, plus the lime away realy boils the crud out of the primer pockets.

[SS_N_NE]

DO NOT clean brass in Lime Away. That stuff has hydrocloric acid in it. You do not want it near your brass or guns.

[GreyGeek]

Since Lemi Shine is Citric Acid I decided to try concentrated Lemon juice to clean brass.

I put a pint of distilled water into my sonic cleaner, added 1/4th cup of Conc Lemon juice, and about 1/4th  a teaspoon of dish detergent.   In about 15 minutes they were shiny inside  and out.   I rinsed them with tap water and finished with distilled water, and then used a blow dryer to dry them.

At the same time I made a pint of the same mixture, which hot water, put the same number of casings in it, shook them gently for about 5 minutes, then washed and dried as above.   The brass came out just as clean as above.

mmm...

[Hank]

DO NOT clean brass in Lime Away. That stuff has hydrocloric acid in it. You do not want it near your brass or guns.

I will make a note of that. Seemed to work very well, but perhaps the long term effects are going to be bad.
I have reloaded and fired 250 rnds of 9mm and ~ couple hundred .223.

[GreyGeek]

DO NOT clean brass in Lime Away. That stuff has hydrocloric acid in it. You do not want it near your brass or guns.

Actually, it contains Sulfamic Acid, which is a strong ORGANIC acid, stronger than Citric Acid but weaker than Hydrochloric Acid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfamic_acid

It is better than Citric Acid because it can remove Sulfate scale that deposits when water is  distilled.  I used to use a water distiller to create drinking water before I switched to reverse osmosis, and Lime Away or CLR was the only things that would crack Calcium Sulfate scale without resorting to HCL, H2SO4 or HNO3. 

BTW, there are some sources in the web saying that concentrated HCL is 46%.  It is not. Fuming Hydrocholoric Acid is 36% HCL.

[Hank]

I asked the `Chemistry Dude` at work today GreyGeek, and he said the same thing about the acid used in lime a way..being organic, and also that it would not be a problem if not left in for a long time and thoroughly rinsed afterward (he suggested neutralize w/baking soda and water). He said where it could be a concern if it was not rinsed good and the solution was allowed to sit in a crevis.
 EDIT- the guy with the sonic cleaner said he used simple green in it.

[GreyGeek]

I asked the `Chemistry Dude` at work today

I taught Organic chemistry, among other subjects,  in college for about a decade before I started my own consulting business.

[A-FIXER]

I tried the simple green and I'll stick to lemmeshine if you let set for more than 10 min in green it stains badly even though I rinsed completely.

[unfy]

http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

Is the site where I got my current good cleaning ultrasonic stuff from.  Note that being a cheap guy, I don't do the BC case cleaner.

CHEAP and CLEAN
24 minutes - 50% Vinegar + 1 Drop Dish Soap per 8 ounces water
480 seconds - Baking Soda (BS) in water (1 grain BS per ounce of water)
480 seconds - Hot Water
480 seconds - Distilled Water
Total: 48 minutes
Cost: Less than $2.00 per gallon

I don't do the 'hot water' step either...

[GreyGeek]

good cleaning ultrasonic stuff

What's your washing volume and for how many casings?

[unfy]

What's your washing volume and for how many casings?

I've been meaning to experiment with this but have yet to do so.  The site above mentioned that they use glass beakers / jars ... I just dump the cases in the basin heh. (edit: still in a basket and not resting on the metal transducer plate ... that would be bad)

I've got a small Lyman 750, it's all of 1L as far as I know.

I'd like to get an RCBS 3L thing (has a drain plug).... or quite possibly the Lyman mammoth thing (drain hose as well).  Due to cheap-bastard liquid change outs, the drain plugs would be handy.

I did some limited experimenting with cold or hot water, a cap full of ammonia and a cap full of mr clean, etc... those didn't work out so well.  The vinegar thing did the best for me.

I know it can handle 25-30 40s&w cases with no problem... or around a dozen 30-30.  I've not ramped up case counts yet.

What I do want to do when I get some free time (ie: not fiddling with copper plating) is:

a) see what max case count I can squeeze out of this lil thing with getting them really clean

b) find a way to go about getting 'clean' with less work (ie: fluid changes).  The idea is to leave primers in and get the cases clean enough for plinking but not necessarily purty.

c) fiddle with the times listed above to see if it's truly necessary.