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Author Topic: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...  (Read 2278 times)

Offline FarmerRick

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I think we could use a few more NFOA members in attendance...  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/events/133359920169754/

"Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" will be held on March 5, at the Nebraska Union Auditorium at 7:00 pm to 8:30 pm. The event will feature seven panelists, each representing a different perspective on gun violence.

They will discuss what they see as both the problems and potential solutions to gun violence in America.

Few Americans question that the nation has a gun violence problem. What they do question is why and what can be done about it. Those answers will be the focus of a two-hour interactive public conversation.

More than 58,000 Americans died in the Vietnam War -- about the same number killed by firearms in the United States every two years.

More than 4,400 Americans died in the first seven years of the Iraq War -- about the same number killed with guns in the United States every seven weeks.

The event is free and open to the public. It also will be televised on TimeWarner cable Channel 21; broadcast on Radio KRNU, 90.3 FM; and live-streamed at http://NewsNetNebraska.org/. Interested individuals can follow the discussion on Twitter at #unlpointblank.

Susan Poser, dean of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln College of Law, will serve as moderator. Panelists include:

Andy Allen, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association lobbyist.

Eric Berger, UNL constitutional law professor.

Mark Christensen, Nebraska state senator.

Steve Joel, Lincoln Public Schools superintendent.

Mario Scalora, UNL psychology professor and an expert in
threat assessment.

Todd Schmaderer, Omaha police chief.

Susan Swearer, UNL psychology professor and co-director of the Bullying Research Network.

"Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence," is sponsored by the UNL College of Journalism and Mass Communications, the College of Law, the Center for Civic Engagement and the Daily Nebraskan. University policy prohibits the possession of firearms, ammunition or other dangerous weapons on campus.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline rudy

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 10:48:57 AM »
I will try to be there.  It should be an interesting discussion.

Offline rudy

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 11:19:15 PM »
I went.  It wasn't as one-sided as I thought it would be.  The moderator seemed to be a bit anti-gun--at least from the way she phrased things.  She went through some statistics and said things like "guns killed" this number of people, etc.  As we all know, guns don't kill people, people kill people. 

Anyways, I think Andy Allen did a good job of portraying the pro-gun side of things.  Senator Christensen did a good job, too. 

The first point of discussion was the second amendment and the constitutional law professor, Prof. Berger, talked about the two clauses and how they could be interpreted differently, etc.  A couple of supreme court rulings were discussed, notably Heller and MacDonald, stating that they defined that the second amendment was an individual right and applied to federal and states.  Interestingly, Miller was discussed briefly--Andy talked about this during his first chance to talk and he got to a point where he was saying that in the Miller decision that the supreme court thought that a gun must be useful in the military to be kept as a personal arm.  At this point the moderator cut him off.  It looked like he was going to juxtapose the Miller decision with current legislation looking to ban military style weapons.  Of course, I don't know for sure since he was cut off.  Oh well.

A lot of the discussion was on mental health issues and the short-comings that are related to mental health care, diagnosis, etc.  If I remember correctly, the Omaha Police Chief made a comment that Omaha has had a number of shootings: some mass shootings that ended approximately 10 lives, but that number is far out-numbered by the number of people that die on the streets in any given number of years.  He's right, but I wonder how many of the people dying on the streets are criminals being killed by other criminals.

The misnomer "assault weapon" was talked about for a while, Andy pointed out that Feinstein doesn't even know what these guns are, they're just "scary" ones--example: using a M16 to point out the type of weapons she wants to ban, but they're already banned (one person clapped for this response, everyone turned and looked at him).  Andy's right about Feinsteins ignorance and started talking about what a barrel shroud is and how she couldn't define it, etc., but it seemed to me that there weren't many people in the audience that really cared.  It seems like they just choose to be ignorant and don't care to hold crazy people like Feinstein accountable.  So frustrating.

Another large portion of the discussion was on how gun violence (and violence in general) is a multi-faceted problem that has to do with children's relationships with their parents, their teachers, their friends, what they're exposed to when they grow up, etc.  In short, it's a community effort to deal with the problem of violence in general.

After some general questions that had been prepared in advance, the panel took questions from the audience--notecards were handed out while entering the auditorium, the questions were written on them and handed in. 

There were a couple of questions that were interesting.  One was asking about universal background checks.  The senator asked for some clarification as we already have background checks, the moderator clarified by guessing that the person was referring to the "loop hole" at gun shows.  He basically said that we already have background checks and he didn't really know what "they" want us to do.  This was met with some sneering and sounds of exasperation from the crowd--the lady next to me was huffing, puffing and talking to herself during this.  It was clear that she was worked up over the so-called "gun show loophole".  It's too bad that no one noted that it's already a federal crime to knowingly sell a firearm to a prohibited person--hence why many people ask to see a driver's license along with a permit to purchase or permit to carry when selling guns.

Near the end, it was asked if anyone had a question that was eating away at them, would keep them up at night, etc.  A number of hands went up and a young man was chosen to ask his question.  It was a bit long-winded, but the jist of it was that he was a US Marine and didn't like that it was illegal for him to carry a gun on campus for protection and wanted to know why concealed handgun permittees could not carry on campus.  One of the panelists, Prof. Scalora a psychologist, gave a hand-waving response, saying  something along the lines of that not everyone has the same training to handle bad situations under stress as a marine.  As a graduate student and CHP holder, it'd be nice if my permit were valid on campus...  The audience was asked to raise their hands if they'd be interested in a legal way to carry a concealed weapon on campus--a surprising number of hands went up--mine included, of course.  Then the audience was asked to raise their hands if they would NOT want there to be a legal way to carry a concealed weapon on campus--it was hard judge, but I'm pretty sure there were more hands up for this.  Oh well, not surprising.

After the questions were done, the moderator asked the panelists to give a 30 second wrap-up.  At this point an older gentleman in the audience stood up and started talking about how Colt was selling AR's in the early 90's and called them sporter rifles, he was quite long winded and eventually the panel just started talking over him and said their 30 second wrap-up, thanking everyone, etc.

Overall, I thought it was an interesting discussion.  It wasn't as one-sided as I thought it would be.  Banning so called "assault rifles" and such came up, of course, and the constitutional law professor said something like, "we don't know if it'll help to ban them, but it might, so it's worth doing".  The senator had some thoughts about this, stating that people are afraid of a slippery slope, take this gun today, take that one tomorrow, and so on.  The constitutional law professor countered that by saying that the slippery slope argument was ridiculous and that banning these kinds of things is "common sense" and that they shouldn't take hunting rifles or guns used for self protection.  I wish I could have told him that the magazine capacity limits ruin so many guns used for self protection.  How many people carry a pistol with more than 10 rounds?  Probably quite a few...

I had hoped someone would ask why ban so called "assault rifles" when they're used in a very small percentage of crimes, but it didn't come up.

I know it's worth trying, but I don't think it's going to change the minds of people that are firmly on the anti-gun side of things.  They don't own them, they don't want to own them, and they don't want ANYONE to own them.  So frustrating.  Guess we'll just have to keep trying.

Offline Mali

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 11:46:15 PM »
Thanks for the wrap-up, Rudy.  I am working out of town and couldn't make it but was wondering how it went.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. - Ronald Reagan

Offline Gary

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 11:57:02 PM »
First I heard about it, several hours too late. 

Gun debate at a liberal arts university.  That is like asking a 6 month old to voice an opinion on boobs, or a dentist to voice an opinion on cavities.    I am sure the media was there, and each news outlet will slant whatever was said against guns.

It is getting to the point, I wonder how I ended up in a time machine headed back to Germany months before WWII.  Except for the fact, no one is speaking German around me, it seems so much the same. 

They had Restage fire to frighten everyone into tighter laws limiting freedoms, we had 9/11.
They rounded up the guns to make life safer for children, and we are headed down that road.
They voted for a leader, and got a dictator, much the same here, if we would wake up and see what is happening.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 12:06:03 AM by Gary »

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 07:29:12 AM »
Thanks for the update Rudy... it stinks living too far away to drive on these type of meetings.

Offline Bucket

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 08:33:11 AM »
Excellent summary.  I'm surprised there was as much support for the 2nd Amendment as you indicate.  University communities tend to be pretty insulated and much further left than the society that surrounds them.  Hearing that there was any sort of balance gives me some measure of hope, at least here in NE.

Offline 66bigblock

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 09:09:45 AM »
KLKN Lincoln 10pm news story about the event. 


http://www.klkntv.com/story/21529053/panelists-talk-gun-violence-at-unl


BTW - The real Andy Allen is the "second" Andy Allen in the report, not the first one!  Nice editing KLKN...


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I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.  I carry a lot of ammo because I cant run very fast.

Offline Phantom

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 10:03:49 AM »
I watched the simulcast i thought it was interesting and it may have opened some eyes
to the fact that the media and others are doing a spin on the issue.

Andy I though was very effective in what time he was allowed and seemed to have several of the panelists agreeing with him.

I like the way he pointed out that background checks are diffrent from gun registration and also pointed out while police chiefs favor the Gun Bans Nebraska Sheriffs and Sheriffs nation wide do not.

And his little Gun shrouds talk was great too .....too bad they didn't let him continue this Debate was like most way too short to really do much.

Out of all of the panelists other then just Ban the guns being their solution. Only Andy had an actual workable solution to part of the Mental health problem .....would it solve the complete problem no but it was a good way to start.

and the Lincoln Public Schools superintendent's solution of no more guns but just make the kids attend school more and longer so we can raise your kids instead of you was about what I expected.  I'm not saying he was way off on his raise better people solution.......but his let us rasie them our way and not yours was way off. 

Good Job Andy
 

« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 10:05:52 AM by Phantom »
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea.....Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated.  "-- Sheridan, "Babylon 5"

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2013, 10:18:45 AM »
Where did you find the simulcast?

Offline rudy

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 10:56:38 AM »
I like the way he pointed out that background checks are diffrent from gun registration and also pointed out while police chiefs favor the Gun Bans Nebraska Sheriffs and Sheriffs nation wide do not.
Yea, the omaha police chief said that one of omaha's officers was killed with an "assault weapon" some years ago, because of this, he supports the assault weapon ban for the safety of his officers.  This comment garnered a ton of clapping from the audience.  I could see that Andy was saying something in response to this, but it was inaudible due to the clapping.  I figured he was saying something about sheriffs opposing the ban, but wasn't sure.  Thanks for mentioning it and confirming my guess.

Offline Phantom

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 12:36:16 PM »
Where did you find the simulcast?
It was Right here. 
"The event is free and open to the public. It also will be televised on TimeWarner cable Channel 21; broadcast on Radio KRNU, 90.3 FM; and live-streamed at http://NewsNetNebraska.org/. Interested individuals can follow the discussion on Twitter at #unlpointblank.

"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea.....Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated.  "-- Sheridan, "Babylon 5"

Offline AAllen

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 12:40:59 PM »
First guys thanks for the feedback, reading some of the twiter feeds this morning i was questioning if I was heard at all, lots of why is there a lobbyist on the panel comments.  I wanted to try to answer a couple of the questions/points brought up, so.

The first point of discussion was the second amendment and the constitutional law professor, Prof. Berger, talked about the two clauses and how they could be interpreted differently, etc.  A couple of supreme court rulings were discussed, notably Heller and MacDonald, stating that they defined that the second amendment was an individual right and applied to federal and states.  Interestingly, Miller was discussed briefly--Andy talked about this during his first chance to talk and he got to a point where he was saying that in the Miller decision that the supreme court thought that a gun must be useful in the military to be kept as a personal arm.  At this point the moderator cut him off.  It looked like he was going to juxtapose the Miller decision with current legislation looking to ban military style weapons.  Of course, I don't know for sure since he was cut off.  Oh well.
For things like this I try to leave some room for the listener to connect the dots, it seems you got it anyway.
The misnomer "assault weapon" was talked about for a while, Andy pointed out that Feinstein doesn't even know what these guns are, they're just "scary" ones--example: using a M16 to point out the type of weapons she wants to ban, but they're already banned (one person clapped for this response, everyone turned and looked at him).  Andy's right about Feinsteins ignorance and started talking about what a barrel shroud is and how she couldn't define it, etc., but it seemed to me that there weren't many people in the audience that really cared.  It seems like they just choose to be ignorant and don't care to hold crazy people like Feinstein accountable.  So frustrating.
You are correct but I find it interesting that my point got through to a couple of the panelists who questioned me about this to the side, great opertunity to educate the abuse of the english Language that is taking place here.
The audience was asked to raise their hands if they'd be interested in a legal way to carry a concealed weapon on campus--a surprising number of hands went up--mine included, of course.  Then the audience was asked to raise their hands if they would NOT want there to be a legal way to carry a concealed weapon on campus--it was hard judge, but I'm pretty sure there were more hands up for this.  Oh well, not surprising.
From the stage it looked like it was about 60%-40% against concealed carry on campus.  That level of support was kind of suprising to me, it means we are getting the education out there.  That means a kudos to Jon Wallace and Students for Concealed Carry for this.
Out of all of the panelists other then just Ban the guns being their solution. Only Andy had an actual workable solution to part of the Mental health problem .....would it solve the complete problem no but it was a good way to start.
I thought that this might get a good response, I tried to tie some of my other comments about crime and repeat offenders and the mental health discussions together with a step toward a solution.  The funny thing is that as I look at the twitter feeds this morning there were a lot of comments wanting me to make a proposal of something to be done, and even commenting that the not participating in crime and hanging out with criminals was impractical.  Then once I gave a proposal there were crikets on twitter.  I think the fact that we can openly suggest solutions and not be just a group that blocks everything caught them off gaurd.

Again thanks for the feedback, and if anyone finds a link to a video of the show I would love to see myself.

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 02:57:57 PM »
I saved that link wonder how it got passed me

Offline Phantom

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 03:35:57 PM »
I saved that link wonder how it got passed me
Guess You got distracted by Flys thread of naked models shooting guns Video's  :laugh:
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea.....Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated.  "-- Sheridan, "Babylon 5"

Offline RobertH

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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 09:21:45 PM »
i have been told the podcast will be on that website tomorrow by noon.  look for it.

http://cojmc.webfactional.com/2013/03/05/newsnetnebraska-to-provide-live-coverage-of-gun-violence-panel/


a video on found on that website... (unrelated to gun violence panel)
http://cojmc.webfactional.com/2013/02/20/rights-protection-cited-as-reasons-to-openly-carry-firearm/
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Re: "Point Blank: A Conversation about Gun Violence" on the UNL Campus...
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 09:24:14 PM »
Guess You got distracted by Flys thread of naked models shooting guns Video's  :laugh:


Yup thats what done it