Author Topic: Powder Coating Lead Bullets (Read 39794 times)

unfy · « **Reply #40 on:** March 30, 2013, 03:51:23 AM »

In preparation for tomorrow.... grabbing usb pen microscope, my barrel currently looks like:

GreyGeek · « **Reply #41 on:** March 30, 2013, 09:06:54 AM »

Quote from: SS_N_NE on March 29, 2013, 08:45:06 PM

3d printer seized

All that did was cause those folks to move to home made 3d printers:
http://reprapbook.appspot.com/
and here:
http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/content/rapman-32-3d-printer-kit

unfy · « **Reply #42 on:** March 30, 2013, 07:43:39 PM »

Went to the range today. Yay.

I don't believe there's any leading in the barrel. Below are a couple of pics from the microscope (which makes things look much worse than they might be heh). I'll run some cleaning patches through in a sec and report on any lead flakes etc.

Accuracy: I was starving, kinda shaking, so that's hard to tell. At 25 feet my first 5 were about par for me. It then continued to get worse. I did shoot one resting on the lane bench, it was as it should be.

Stopped at hardware store to pick up a cabinet lazy susan thing. $5. A couple 12 inch round pizza pans from wally world for under a $1 each, and a couple cookie sheets for under a $1 each. Pizza rounds & lazy susan: turn table. Will be attaching the ground clamp to the bottom and assuring some conductivity to the top. Should make PC application easier.

Also started pricing an oven build.... more on that in the other thread after gun cleaning heh.

The pics:

DangerousDrummer · « **Reply #43 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:29:07 PM »

My first small batch turned out perfect. I made a tray out of heavy sheet metal, drilled holes in a grid pattern on 1 " centers, staggering the rows and welded roofing nails in the holes. I then chucked my lyman case sizer in the lathe and drilled small holes in the points of the bullets creating mini hollow points. Placed the bullets point down on the nails and powder coated a small batch. Popped them in the toaster and twenty minutes later I got yellow bullets. I tried muzzleloader (REAL, rifling engraved at loading) and you can just barely see where the bullet was kissing the lands. I think this changes everything for bullet casters. No more gas checks, no more sabots for muzzleloaders, no more leading. Here are pictures from today's efforts..

In the oven

Out of the oven (no aluminum foil used, and lifted off with no effort)

Single bullet, if you look close you can see the rifling marks.

The mini hollow points.

Tomorrow I will modify the base plug of my 458 SOCOM mold to create a small hole in the base. Those bullets I will coat nose up. I'm loving this!

unfy · « **Reply #44 on:** March 30, 2013, 08:45:48 PM »

Dangerous: awesome!!! Love the pics too. Did you actually fire the muzzle loader or cleaning rod ram a poncho'd bullet through ?

And... ponchos ? nah, not a great name.

Cleaning my sig p229 40s&w barrel... after about the 20 rounds i put through it at the range... there was *some* lead, but not much, and far less than missouri bullet company lead (that were shot at lower loads even!).

I'll note my coat wasn't perfect, and I didn't get the bases coated.

I'll be taking a different approach to base coating ... don't feel like chucking a drill to anything and don't want lead shavings. The approach i've got *may* work, we'll see. Sadly, my approach will be much more mold-specific heh.

Off to mark stuff and make plans

unfy · « **Reply #45 on:** March 31, 2013, 03:53:49 AM »

Well... lazy susan assembled. Should do as needed <3.

Got something of a tray finished. My original goal ... well.. yeah, not gonna be built with these materials or tools.

I'll note that there might be some concern, I dunno. Basically... the walmart cookie sheet is a thin steel. Thus, the holes aint perfect and since the thin sheet metal is a bit wibbly.... getting uniform cut off point will be a no-go.

I dunno if the lil bit of PC difference from bullet to bullet will make a difference or not.

edit:

lead's fairly soft, i wonder if shallow and really thin thumb tacks / brads / whatever in the nose of a bullet are possible ? here lead, time to go fiddle.

basically, i wouldn't care about the lip/filet on the nose...

edit again:

ok, yeah, not that soft

These TC bullets do stand on their nose fairly decently though. I might have to buy a file to keep specifically with the lead pot to rub bullet noses on if they aint flat.

NENick · « **Reply #46 on:** March 31, 2013, 10:01:29 AM »

Unfy, if you want to drill the holes and get the nails, I can weld up the design mentioned above.

unfy · « **Reply #47 on:** March 31, 2013, 07:25:44 PM »

The tray and lazy susan. The ground clamp goes to the base of the lazy susan, and 'just cause I can just to be sure' - alligator clip the tray to the top of the lazy susan.

The cheap cardboard box and stuff 'paint hood' heh.

How the bullets came out:

For bkoenig: I did another 'sitting on foil' batch as well. Got the PC a bit thicker and the filet problem was more pronounced. Peeling off stuff worked decently for big stuff, and indeed sizing die did knock off quite a bit. I've got a small ring of powder coat at the base of sizing punch.

bkoenig · « **Reply #48 on:** March 31, 2013, 08:12:20 PM »

Looking good.

I'm going to try some rifle bullets when I get set up.

unfy · « **Reply #49 on:** April 01, 2013, 06:27:22 PM »

Went to the range today ... put 21 base-coated bullets through. Leading looks to be less than the nose coated, no failure to feed issues, and they're pretty good accuracy wise. I'll get pics together when I get home tonight.

I do have ideas on getting a complete coat done, more on that later too

bkoenig · « **Reply #50 on:** April 01, 2013, 07:43:18 PM »

Hmm...so I wonder if the ones with the uncoated bottoms were getting some leading from the powder vaporizing the base of the bullet. Interesting.

I was thinking today, if you're going to set them in the holes nose down I bet you could the take a flat board or sheet of metal and set it down on the bases to straighten them all out. That would give you a more even coat around the nose.

unfy · « **Reply #51 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:23:29 PM »

Quote from: bkoenig on April 01, 2013, 07:43:18 PM

I was thinking today, if you're going to set them in the holes nose down I bet you could the take a flat board or sheet of metal and set it down on the bases to straighten them all out. That would give you a more even coat around the nose.

Possibly. Maybe. If ya look at the thing I made above... and just visualize it yourself a bit too... you'll note that the cookie sheet aint exactly a perfectly flat sheet with holes drilled in it. It warps and bends and stuff.

If it was a thick piece of weldable steel or something, then it'd be all kinds of precise and shouldn't warp.

I'll note that the cookie sheet thing didn't warp during cooking... which they usually do (I use others of the same for cooking at home) ... and DD's post shows his sheet metal warping in the oven.

unfy · « **Reply #52 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:37:37 PM »

To copy/paste from the CB thread:

Actually... take your spring loaded idea and instead have:

|B|--- --|?|SSSS|B|===

Where B = a metal bar, --- is a tack / nail / etc, S is a compression spring, and ? is some way of attaching the spring loaded nail/thumbtack/whatever to the spring, === being the bit of the spring guide rod that free floats out the other end.

If your guide rod is |===== shaped, a small folded over bit of metal in a C shape would possibly do.

This would get you to tack/nail points to press against the tip and nose of the boolit with a quick release mechanism for sanity.

Would have to make sure the tack/nail/brad you use is of decent length so that it doesn't shadow / interfere with the PC application.

I'll hit hardware store and eyeball this. Springs through local sources can be difficult to be had at 'sane' costs (we are talking 50-200 springs).... but can be had online at better prices. Barring a spring, if the bar is tapped, a bolt with an easy-enough-to-grip head would be a valid alternative (welding wingnuts sounds applicable)... you should only need 1-2 revolutions to apply enough force on the pins.

Sheet metal / whatever base, has tacks / nails on 1 inch centers.

Bars are held above it that have either a spring loaded contraption or just a threaded holes that push another nail / tack downward.

Thus, you have a bullet nose and base being held in place via a couple 'needles'.

Make the bottom nails long enough enough that the PC gets under it just fine...

As far as 'easy to grip bolt head' -- i'd venture a wingnut between two other nuts would work as something to manipulate with fingers ?

A fun question with something that's threaded like that... how does powder coat in the threads affect stuff ?

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #53 on:** April 01, 2013, 08:44:07 PM »

I was trying to imagine using a reloading press to press a hole in the base or tip of a bullet allowing it to set on the bead of nails type holder. Seems to get too complicated.
Seems it would be simpler to set up a fixture on a drill press and just drill the holes with a small bit.

unfy · « **Reply #54 on:** April 01, 2013, 09:06:10 PM »

Quote from: SS_N_NE on April 01, 2013, 08:44:07 PM

I was trying to imagine using a reloading press to press a hole in the base or tip of a bullet allowing it to set on the bead of nails type holder. Seems to get too complicated.
Seems it would be simpler to set up a fixture on a drill press and just drill the holes with a small bit.

Ya might be able to get away with a VERY small hole when using a press... but... otherwise ya gotta be careful. Swaging dies have hollow point tips and stuff, but the dies are all kinds of beefy

.

Lastly, if you press a spike into a bullet, where does that excess lead go ? You'll be sizing the bullet eventually anyway... but... yeah. Still a valid concern probably.

A 40s&w 180gr bullet is about 1/2 inch in length if I recall correctly. At pushing a nail in 1/4 of an inch, how much are you deforming the bullet ? Do you really need 1/4 inch ? would an 1/8th or 3/16ths do ? I dunno.

Lots of folks chuck their case trimmers to portable drills or such and trim cases WITH POWER heh. Never been a fan of that idea myself, but I don't trim ALOT of cases anyway. Anyhoo, you can usually chuck a drill bit in the case trimmer just fine as well ... case trimmer cutting edges have a hole with a tension bolt that's used to change out mandrels for different caliber cases - why not throw a drill bit in there ? etc ...

In fact, if you look above, DD did just that, put a drill bit in his case trimmer

.

Cabela's has the lyman case trimmer for $99 (seems high?):

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lyman-Universal174-Carbide-Case-Trimmer/753206.uts

A powered one for $230ish i think. A drill adapter for $30. RCBS powered one is $300 i think ?

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #55 on:** April 01, 2013, 09:57:21 PM »

That is why I said it seemed too complicated. It started looking like the swage process you described with displacement and all.

Still, maybe stab a tack in the base with a press to get a quick repeatable set. Just thinking out loud...typing...whatever.

unfy · « **Reply #56 on:** April 01, 2013, 10:33:51 PM »

Quote from: SS_N_NE on April 01, 2013, 09:57:21 PM

That is why I said it seemed too complicated. It started looking like the swage process you described with displacement and all.

Still, maybe stab a tack in the base with a press to get a quick repeatable set. Just thinking out loud...typing...whatever.

Might be possible to build something to goes on top of the punch for the lee push through sizing die. a brass nut with a piece of metal inside (preferably tool steel / drill rod material)... how to get it to sit center on the post is interesting as well as how to get the 'nail' in it sturdily and centered ...

then the joy of what holds the lead bullet in place.

plenty of stuff to be worked out, i'm sure *something* could be constructed.

Hell, i almost wonder if ya take an old reloading die and somehow rig up a a drill bit and crank handle if ya could make a press-based-drill.

random thoughts... all require tooling that is possibly beyond what i can do atm.

unfy · « **Reply #57 on:** April 02, 2013, 02:00:32 AM »

Pen microscope feels like light bleeding stuff today, dunno what's up with it. Whatever.

Barrel after the base coat rounds:

As far as accuracy... the target from the range (25ft):

.

Shooting glasses were fogging up on me and I didn't bother to fix... prolly why it started to wander to the lower left.

Oh, and the hole in the top ? 10ga shell for first test shot of the 10ga side by side (30-ish inch barrels with fixed full choke)

. Had to improvise the shell using 12ga press, a dowel, and pliers. 20 of the 'pretty much 00buck' pellets on top of 38gr of blue dot. Kicked kinda harsh but not too bad... that gun is gonna frighten me when I start cutting it down (unless I sell it to someone before doing so heh).

I'll edit this post and report cleaning results of the pistol barrel.

that promised edit above:

Yup, only a couple tiny ball point pin ultra tiny flakes of lead. Coat the bases bkoenig!

unfy · « **Reply #58 on:** April 02, 2013, 04:40:52 AM »

Quote from: bkoenig on March 28, 2013, 10:19:25 PM

and while I don't get any barrel leading they introduce a lot of crud into my gas system,

Actually.... is lube crud any better than PC crud ?

I've not had ANY red on ANY patch i've run through my pistol barrel... but that's an entirely different beast than a rifle ?

DangerousDrummer · « **Reply #59 on:** April 02, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »

Hey unfy,

Got a $15 1.2 -30 v, 5 amp adjustable power supply with fan. Have you read the bullet plating paper on CaswellPlating website. The writer was using a kit, but there is no need to spend the money on a kit, but his bullets looked good. The trick to even plating seems to be low voltage, low current. I intend to build a holder out of a plastic cutting board. Like you, I am not giving up on plating for powder coating. I know PC will work for larger slower bullets, but will have trouble with high speed smaller calibers. I WILL conquer plating for 7.62 and 223.