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Author Topic: Concealed Handgun Permit Question  (Read 2420 times)

Offline Army11C10

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Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« on: June 13, 2009, 08:46:18 AM »
The Supersaver on 48th and O Street does NOT have a sign prohibiting Concealed Carry,BUT there is a US Bank inside Super Saver.Is this considered a Financial Institution as defined by 018.01G and can't carry inside the Super Saver Building?The US Bank is opened to the rest of the store.
                                             Army11C10

Offline bullit

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2009, 10:11:28 AM »
No,  LB430 covered this issue.  As long as you do not enter the bank "part".

Offline Army11C10

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 10:18:22 AM »
Thank you bullit.I appeciate your quick reply.

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 05:45:41 PM »
I just now saw this post, and wondered the same thing when I first started carrying with my permit.  I never knew the official answer (maybe there was none then), but I just avoided that part of the store and didn't worry about it too much.  It's nice to know, though.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 06:18:21 PM »
For curiosity sake, though.  Just how does 430 clarify that question?  I didn't find anything in it that would have.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 09:41:45 PM »
I couldn't find anything in LB430 except that CC is prohibited in a Financial Institution.

Anyone have the specific location of LB430 which addresses a bank in a store?

Fly
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Offline JimP

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 09:44:00 PM »
IIRC, CMZ covered this, somewheres.......ccwne, maybe.  Chris?
The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.  III.

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2009, 09:49:50 AM »
I just called the Attorney General's office.  Mind you, I didn't talk to Bruning directly, but one of his employees.  He seemed to know what he was talking about.  The "official" word from him is that carrying a gun into an establishment, such as the SuperSaver in question that houses a financial institution, is one of those things that is not clearly defined by law.  Whether or not charges could, or would be filed would depend on a number of circumstances, including, but not limited to the following.  Proximity to the actual bank or bank area.  If you were at the bank counter transacting business with them (or robbing them), you would probably be charged with a violation if discovered.  If you were two hundred feet away buying a bag of peanuts, you would probably not be charged even if discovered.  The interpretation of the law and circumstances from the perspective of the law enforcement officer on the scene.  If he was called because a store employee noticed a bulge under your jacket when you reached for the pickels on a high shelf, and you were doing nothing else wrong or illegal at the time, and you had a clean record, and you cooperated with the LEO when confronted, you would probably not be charged.  If you had, three quarts of whiskey under your sweatshirt, a record a mile long, and got pissy with the LEO when questioned (like calling him/her a racist), you could likely be charged.  If you did end up in court, all of these things would come into play when either the judge or jury arrived at a verdict.

It's a crap shoot.  Most likely if you keep your distance from the bank area and don't do anything suspicious and cooperate should you be contacted by an LEO, you have nothing to worry about.  So, don't be eating a few of the grapes as you pass by the produce section.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline JimP

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 10:48:21 AM »
If you were at the bank counter transacting business with them (or robbing them), you would probably be charged with a violation if discovered.  If you were two hundred feet away buying a bag of peanuts, you would probably not be charged even if discovered.  The interpretation of the law and circumstances from the perspective of the law enforcement officer on the scene.  If he was called because a store employee noticed a bulge under your jacket when you reached for the pickels on a high shelf, and you were doing nothing else wrong or illegal at the time, and you had a clean record, and you cooperated with the LEO when confronted, you would probably not be charged.  

It's a crap shoot.  

If...... If....... If....... If the Officer doesn't take a shine to you/If he/she has had a bad day/does not like the T-shirt you have on/the spelling of your last name/ the fact that you have tatoos, piercings/ thinks he/she is OneoftheOnlyOnes/yadayada ad infinitum........

Officer Discretion..... hell, if we wanted to rely on that, we would all carry under "Affirmative Defense".  What we have with this case is folk tiptoeing around hoping the Police like them.  "When the Government fears the People, there is Liberty.  When the People fear the Government, there is Tyranny."

« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 10:50:52 AM by JimP »
The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.  III.

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2009, 01:40:12 PM »
JimP:

Your point is what?  That we should be able to carry wherever we want?  Well, we can't (without risking arrest), at least not right now.  I'm not saying that if we're good little boys and girls we have nothing to fear.  I'm just telling it like it is.  It's up to each of us if we want to take a chance with an ambiguous law.  I'd like to carry anywhere I go, too, but I will admit there are certain places it's probably not a good idea - places where alcohol or hot tempers are likely to impair someone's judgement, for example.  That's another questionable area we CHPers have to worry about:  an establishment with a liquor license that derives over half of its income from alcohol.  How the heck are we supposed to know that?  Sure, the NSP recommends that those establishments post against concealed handguns, but they are not required to do so.  And, what sense does that make anyway if someone can still openly carry in the same establishment?

There is no doubt our laws leave a lot to be desired.  I'm really not sure what your point is here, so don't get me wrong and take this comment as an attack on you.  On the other hand, if you don't like tiptoeing around hoping the police like you, and would like to stand next to the bank counter at SuperSaver until someone notices you're packing under your T-shirt so you can be the first test case, I'm sure we'd all appreciate knowing how it turns out.  ;D
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline JimP

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2009, 07:44:58 PM »
My point is that it is a shame that we have to tiptoe...... that is not to say we should go stomping about.  It just galls me that any policeman, at his "discretion"' can nail your hide to the barn door with a "disturbing the peace" charge because somone saw your gun, if he feels like it.  The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.
The Right to Keep and BEAR Arms is enshrined explicitly in both our State and Federal Constitutions, yet most of us are afraid to actually excercise that Right, for very good reason: there is a good chance of being arrested........ and  THAT is a damned shame.  III.

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2009, 09:25:32 PM »
I totally agree, Jim.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline Jesse T

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 12:01:30 PM »
Banks are not prohibited for open carry are they? So theoretically you could just uncover your gun when you step in the bank.  Somebody do that and lets see how well THAT goes over. *rolls eyes*

I am totally on board though, it sucks we have to be so careful.  And the worst part is that it isn't fear of doing somethign wrong or illegal, it is fear of being locked up and all your money tied up in a years-long legal battle!!!
N0ZXR

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 01:07:05 PM »
Not sure about open carry in a bank, but that's probably one of the last places I would try it!

Here's another question regarding CHP.  It seems in my reading of 430, that they have changed the proper procedure for permit holders entering posted property with a handgun in their vehicle.  They struck out the section that said we were not in violation of carrying on posted property as long as the handgun did not leave the vehicle.  Now, it says "prior to exiting the vehicle, the handgun is locked inside the glove box, trunk, or other compartment of the vehicle, a storage box securely attached to the vehicle, or, if the vehicle is a motorcycle, a hardened compartment securely attached to the motorcycle."  Would simply locking the doors to the vehicle suffice?  Or, does the gun need to be in the glovebox, trunk, etc.?  In my truck, for example, I would consider the entire interior to be the passenger compartment, so if I locked the doors, the gun would be in an "other compartment of the vehicle" wouldn't it?  At the same time, anyone, even a non CHP holder, can have a gun on school grounds as long as it is "encased" and not loaded.  It doesn't even have to be locked up.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.

Offline Jesse T

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 03:22:34 PM »
I understand that it may not be a great idea (see my above reply about needing a lawyer on retention for excersizing your rights). However my point is that there is no law against carrying in a private bank.  The bank could have a no weapons policy or signs on the door and ask you to leave so at the very most I think you could be cited for trespassing if you refused to leave.  But there is no law saying you can't open carry there.


As for your question about compartments, it'd probably be a legal battle for your lawyers to fight over, if it came down to it.  Why would you leave your expensive handgun sitting out on your car's seat anyway?

[opinion]Basically if you leave your guns in an unlocked car or out in the open, you're not too responsible a gun owner to start with and probably deserve to get them stolen.  [/opinion]
N0ZXR

Offline armed and humorous

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Re: Concealed Handgun Permit Question
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2009, 04:03:31 PM »
I would not leave my guns in the open in my locked vehicle.  However, they can be concealed without being in a separate lockable compartment like a glovebox.  Many newer vehicles have numeruous storage compartments for things that don't lock.  I don't want to have to put my gun in the glove box, which I can't even reach from the driver seat, just so it can be double locked.  If someone can get into the passenger compartment of my truck when it's locked, they can damn sure get into the glove box, locked or not.

I was not sure about open carry in a bank, but couldn't find anything prohibiting it as a general rule anyway, so you're probably right about that.

I suppose the glovebox thing is just one more of those "depends on how the officer, jury, judge, decides to interpret it" things.  I'm not too worried about it because no one's going to know if there's a gun in my truck or not unless I did leave it in the open (which, by the way would not be illegal anywhere else and perhaps not even on posted property depending on how you interpret the law).  I agree, it would be stupid.  Even before CHP, when I carried my gun on the dash or seat while I was driving so it wouldn't be concealed, I put it out of sight when I left the vehicle.  Then again, that's one of those things you'd have to be careful about.  If you came back from the post office, for example, got into your vehicle, and then pulled your gun from the glovebox or under the seat while a cop happened to be watching.  They could conceivably say you had a concealed weapon, even though it was only for a few seconds when you got into the car.
Gun related issues are, by nature, deadly serious.  Still, you have to maintain a sense of humor about them.