Follow-Up From A GreyGeek Post On Negligent Discharge Video

[Gary]

A few days ago, GreyGeek posted a follow-up video from a guy that did a Negligent Discharge into his leg, sometimes called Glock Leg, although he did his with a 1911 Kimber.

I watched that video, as well as the first video in this saga, where he first posted about shooting himself.   Pretty interesting stuff.

The thing that most strikes me as interesting about his follow-up video, is after a year, and all the pain and suffering he must have gone through, what did he learn exactly?

Watch the video, or notice the still photo from the video, and you will spot something very interesting, the guy has his 1911 cocked & locked. 

I want other peoples opinions on this.  Is Cocked & Locked a prudent way to carry a 1911, when you have already proven that level of safety did not work well for you?

I have owned 1911's and I always kept my sidearm locked, hammer down.

GreyGeek, thanks for posting this, maybe we can pick up on this subject again.  Safety is always my greatest concern when handling firearms.   

[bullit]

"Locked" with hammer down???   On a 1911???  So we are on the same page the term "locked" traditionally refers to the 1911 thumb safety being activated.  If possible with yours it is certainly not normal as 1911 hammers won't move forward as the trigger cannot be depressed when the thumb safety activated/locked. Nor is it safe. Furthermore the hammer resting on the firing pin with the gun in condition one is asking for problems with the exception of a series 80 firing pin safety. Please explain.....

[Gary]

Do people here think someone surrounded by menacing paper targets should keep a 1911 in the cocked and locked stance, given his history of failure doing so?

What will his reasoning be, the next time he shoots himself?

I admit, I have not followed this guy.  Maybe he usually trains with SWAT teams, and he is in complete command of his firearms, but I just have a hunch he should tone down the cocked and locked dance.   

[Gary]

I did not know a Colt 1911 could not go safety on, with the hammer down.  Learn something new everyday.  My frame of reference was from something called a Star PD.  That was my sidearm for many years.  Loved that handgun.  It will allow you to lock the hammer and slide with the hammer down, and at the half cocked position, if I remember correctly.

Still my question stands, is cocked and locked a safe way to carry a 1911, all the time?  Or is that better to only do so when the threat level is raised?

[bullit]

Guy was negligent....got it...hope he learned his lesson.  Emphatically yes carry a 1911 in cocked and locked condition one.  Always have and always will as this was JMBs intent in its design. Inherently safe and ready to go .....and as safe as your Glock 20.

[Gary]

Guy was negligent....got it...hope he learned his lesson.  Still VERY interested in your 1911 carry mode.

In post above.  In the video, this explains how I was able to carry my 1911 style .45 ACP in the locked and uncocked position.  I was not aware a Colt could not do the same.

Question remains, is it safe, prudent, ideal to leave your 1911 cocked and locked, and to post another video of doing this, after you shot yourself a year before?

[bullit]

Modified mine. Thanks for your reply.

[unfy]

I don't own a 1911 oddly.

Really oddly.

WTF?!

I am gonna have to fix that this year.  If I can.  WTF.  Why don't I have a 1911 ?!  One of the sexiest firearms out there....

Anyhoo, from everyone I've talked to that carries a 1911 (including a really good friend & airforce officer), they always carry it cocked & locked with hammer fully back.

[lneuke]

Question remains, is it safe, prudent, ideal to leave your 1911 cocked and locked, and to post another video of doing this, after you shot yourself a year before?

If he is confident in his abilities and feels that it is never going to happen again I don't see any issue in his method of carry.  If I was going to carry a 1911 I would have it cocked and locked as well (in appendix, if that freaks you out a little ).

[NENick]

Wouldn't he have been fine if he hadn't touched the trigger of a firearm while it was pointed at his body? I don't think any weapon/ carry method/ safety will protect you when you touch the trigger with the safety in the off position, while pointed at yourself.

[Gary]

Image of two 1911 designs, one with Cocked & Locked, and one with Uncocked and Locked.

[Gary]

Guy was negligent....got it...hope he learned his lesson.  Emphatically yes carry a 1911 in cocked and locked condition one.  Always have and always will as this was JMBs intent in its design. Inherently safe and ready to go .....and as safe as your Glock 20.

Here is my Glock 20.  I think "MY" Glock 20 has an extra measure of safety, no Cocked & Locked 1911 I have ever seen has.

[WallPhone]

Quite the impressive paws--you grip that 20 like I grip my 26.

Biggest weakness of the safe-t-block is its a pain to engage before holstering if you just completed a string of fire. Many people with hammer-fired weapons ride their thumb on the hammer as a preventative measure when holstering, and there is a similar button type device in the works that replaces the Glock back plate that prevents trigger movement while held down.

[stutzcattle]

I don't carry a 1911 because of it's complexity.  But I have in the past carried a Kimber.  My wife being new to the carry world has convinced me to carry a M&P.  It's no more dangerous than a cocked and locked 1911.  It just looks scarier with that mean assed hammer visible.  Pull the trigger and it goes bang.

[JTH]

The 1991 was designed to be carried cocked and locked.    There are literally billions of examples of 1911-style firearms carried that way.  (Every day someone put on their gear and holstered it cocked-and-locked, that was an example.  And since this was what it was designed for, unsurprisingly, almost everyone does it.)  This is similar to why Glocks, M&Ps, and many other firearms without external hammers or safeties are carried safely in a holster with a round chambered, without any extraneous safety items added to them.

In both cases---the gun doesn't go off by itself.  It goes off when someone pulls the trigger.

In the case of a 1911, if it is uncocked but locked, either 1) the owner dropped the hammer on a full chamber (not smart) and then put the safety on (which you actually can't do in many cases) which doesn't necessarily block the firing pin from hitting the primer (if you own a 1911, you should know if your firearm has a firing pin safety block or not), OR 2) the owner doesn't even have one in the chamber and still put the safety on, because they were afraid of the gun spontaneously racking its own slide, apparently.

In either case, the owner should hand the gun over to someone competent, and start working with Airsoft guns until they become competent.

As for Gary's comment about how people should carry differently when "the threat level is raised" --- no.  Just---no.

[David Hineline]

1911 is carried cocked and locked,  If you carry it any other way you are doing it wrong and should choose a different gun. The only lesson needed is not to put your finger anywhere near the trigger on any gun until it is pointed in the direction needed.

[00BUCK]

Let's not forget that "riding the hammer down" with your thumb to take it out of cocked and locked is not only completely unsafe but doing so can, in many cases, damage the sear. This happens because you most likely aren't pulling the trigger all the way back but just far enough to break the connection which can leave the sear nose still in contact with the hammer causing it to drag versus clearing the trigger completely. Carry it as JMB intended, cocked and locked.

[skydve76]

incredibly lucky, and he was walking afterwards.  Hes lucky he was that fat I think that saved his leg.

[Tacticoolio]

"Keep your booger hook off the bang stick" until you are on target and ready to fire.  A 1911 doesn't change the interpretation or application of that rule, nor does the carry condition of the firearm.