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Author Topic: KESTREL Wind Meters  (Read 2907 times)

Offline JTH

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Re: KESTREL Wind Meters
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2013, 02:02:31 PM »
So G7 is a "drag model" that is part of a ballistic program? And would be similar data from different companies that sell software? Everyone uses the G7 profile?

Actually, most ballistics programs give you the choice of which calculation set/model to use--there are several.  For most people doing THIS sort of shooting, G7 tends to work best.  (Results may vary, see your owner's manual for details, don't drive or operate heavy machinery while under the influence of G7.)  For other types of shooting (in particular, with different types of bullets) other drag models might work better.

Quote
I thought that with "F - Class" type events aound the state that this would be more popular.
Isn't there a 1000yd range at Chardon? Elk hunters, etc.

Maybe Johns PRS match might notch up some interest.  ;D

One can hope.  But...

...we can't even get a majority of people to the range to shoot an entire box of ammo.  Of the small percentage of people we CAN get to the range, mag dumps at 3 yards are often considered "practice."

PRS is a demanding discipline that takes a LOT of prep and mind time.  People who are good at it are REALLY cool to see.  But like anything else where there is a ton of work that culminates in only one shot or so---for many people, that isn't much motivation to try it.

I know that while I'm interested in it, my own free time is such that I simply don't HAVE time to devote to this skill set.  My skill set starts with pistol, moves to CQ carbine and shotgun, and ranges out to about 300 yards.   (Pretty much in that priority order, due to my analysis of risk and my own interest levels.)

Shooting farther than that is fun, and an interesting skill set to build and practice.  But for me, if I have time to get to the range----taking shots at 2MOA targets at 600 yards is low on the priority list.

Which means that in the PRS match, I'm going to be pretty easy to beat.  :)  (If he does the "designated marksman" match, though, I'm going to be ALL SORTS of interested in that one.)
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: KESTREL Wind Meters
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2013, 02:59:52 PM »
(If he does the "designated marksman" match, though, I'm going to be ALL SORTS of interested in that one.)


YES

Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: KESTREL Wind Meters
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2013, 03:20:20 PM »
So G7 is a "drag model" that is part of a ballistic program? And would be similar data from different companies that sell software? Everyone uses the G7 profile?


In order:
Yes, most of the better ones anyway.

It should be, industry standard. In reality it is just a series of numbers and equations (like how an image on your computer screen is, at its core, still just a series of ones and zeroes)

No, in fact most people still use G1, and many people do just fine with it. But in reality, the G1 model is meant for round nosed flat based (pistol) rounds, as G7 is ideal for longer HPBT (match rifle) rounds. G1 was the original drag model used for everything, and it gives rifle rounds very "nice" looking BCs (upwards of .5) which is a prime selling point. Alot of bullet manufacturers still publish (in some cases only) the G1 BCs, because they are higher, sexier numbers, and unfortunately, most folks just don't know any better. Also, many lower-end and older calcs only offer the G1 model, so many folks just assume it is the way to go.

FWIW, Yes I checked, and I would have had to "tweak" my G1 BC even more than I did to get a true algorithm, in the above post, and my wind and velocity data would have been WAY off on the G1 after all that tweaking.

I thought that with "F - Class" type events aound the state that this would be more popular.


You ever heard what I call F-Class? :) Unfortunately, F class, while better than benchrest, is not really that practical either. Remember it was started by Palma shooters who where too old to stay steady in a prone-unsupported position.

Isn't there a 1000yd range at Chardon?

I've heard of it, never been. There are 1000yrd+ ranges, with some form of club or public access, near Alliance, Broken Bow, and Lexington, that I know of for sure. Most folks have private land that they either own or "borrow" (myself included). I did have somebody contact me from Seward recently saying they are starting up a LR club there, so I am very hopeful for that.

the 600yrd line at ENGC, from the looks of it, has some potential, if you moved the road and the firing line back quite a ways and put a lot of money into dirt work, and probably a shooting tower. I very much doubt this will ever happen with the planned (maybe completed, I haven't been there in a min) pistol pits that would be in the way, and the recent overhaul to the 600yrd firing line.

In the end, I can't blame them, since if there was enough demand, I'm sure they would have gone with lengthening the line over the new pistol pits. There simply isn't alot of people who are interested in shooting that far, and, to be frank, shooting on natural terrain is QUITE a bit different (and more enjoyable) than shooting in your typical bermed out range.

Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: KESTREL Wind Meters
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2013, 03:36:16 PM »

One can hope.  But...

...we can't even get a majority of people to the range to shoot an entire box of ammo.  Of the small percentage of people we CAN get to the range, mag dumps at 3 yards are often considered "practice."

PRS is a demanding discipline that takes a LOT of prep and mind time.  People who are good at it are REALLY cool to see.  But like anything else where there is a ton of work that culminates in only one shot or so---for many people, that isn't much motivation to try it.


Pretty much hit the nail on the head. However difficult you _think_ PRS is, its at least twice that (I learned the hard way, as do most others). This is why you see alot of people who get a 700 and a decent scope, and talk about getting into long range shooting, maybe go out once or twice, and then you never hear about it again, and the rifle is either sold or becomes a safe queen. Either that, or they just can't find a place to practice (although, personally, I think this is usually a result of not looking hard enough, for most folks).

There is a reason that while the crops are out, my ammo consumption on my carbine and pistol drop way off. I love the challenge and cannot resist. Not only do you have to have solid muscle memory rooted in the fundamentals, but you have to solve multiple problems all at once. It is demanding for sure, but, by far, my favorite discipline. I also firmly believe that it has helped me out significantly in all other disciplines.


Offline wallace11bravo

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Re: KESTREL Wind Meters
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2013, 03:43:19 PM »
Yes, the entire idea with this match is to increase interest in this style of shooting. I know it will take more than one match to have an impact, that is why I intend for this to become an annual thing. More folks will be talking, the knowledge pool will increase, easier to find people to shoot with, and, most importantly, people will find more places to shoot!



The marksman match... I have some plans for next year that do include a multi-day event, including (possibly) a PRS league points "division",as well as the possibility of a marksman "division". I figure the best way to keep the PR guys out of the marksman match is to put a fair amount of up-close work in the stages as well, so the course of fire would have to be WAY different from the other two.

These are very long-range tentative plans, but I'll probably be running them by folks at this year's match to get a feel for what people want.