So sent Cheif Peshong a e-mail....

[FarmerRick]

Soo.... I think this is pretty much going to be a fight for those of us in Lancaster county.

I had a member on ARFCOM say let it be until after 41P is put into effect. He says instead of every supporter in Lancaster county sending letters and flooding them. He recommended we become a collective group and push after we know what is going to happen with the new ATF rules.

How much support can Lancaster County Muscle?

GoingPostal on ARFCOM is Scott of American Reaper Arms LLC, just FYI...   

[tstuart34]

GoingPostal on ARFCOM is Scott of American Reaper Arms LLC, just FYI...   

Ha well i just sent him a IM on here asking him to give some input. I need a cheat sheet and a meet and greet with everyone on here and there!

[tstuart34]

So Sheriff Wagner replied to me very quickly almost immediately with

     "As a rule I do not sign Form 4s. I'll have to wait and see the final language of the proposed ATF form 4 CLEO signature line before I give you a definitive answer."

I asked him why he doesn't and I have not got a reply. See what he says

Just a update for anyone interested Sheriff Wagner sent me another e-mail last week.

Trevor,
      As an employer who's employees risk their lives on a daily basis, I would not want to do anything that could be used to harm one of my employees or further that risk. I know that sounds 'henny penny the sky is falling', but I can assure you, having to go through a line of duty death is an experience I don't want to have happen again.

Terry Wagner

I understand Sheriff Wagner not wanting to put his employees at risk. I feel horrible every time a criminal injures or kills a LEO.  But I also do not accept his reasoning as a very valid answer. His employees are more likely to be injured be by a motor vehicle during a traffic stop then a NFA weapon. It also frustrates me that his office issues our handgun purchase permits which a background check is done and it is decided if we can legally purchase a pistol and use it to purchase other firearms.

For now I am going to go with American Reaper and let things ride out to see what will happen with 41P. His business is going to be affected in some way by this. So I feel his input is very valid and needed.

 In the mean time I am going to start a list of all of the eligible signers with contact info for Lancaster County. Once 41P is finalized those who are interested in taking up the fight can join together and create a joint effort to get the best results.

[RobertH]

i will try to join in the fight.

BTW - send in your anti-41P comments soon!  i will send mine in next week.  you never know when their systems will be down (especially with the holidays)

[depserv]

This is just one of many possible problems that come from having the mayor's office occupied by a traitor.  As the saying goes, a fish rots from the head down.  All patriots should do everything in our power to get a loyal American elected mayor.  I know that's unlikely in Lincoln, but still worth some effort.  I don't know what percent of the citizens of Lincoln actually vote in the Mayoral race, but I bet it's pretty small.

[JimP]

I do not know you. I have no idea as to how you plan to use these, store them, secure them, etc. For all I know you may not even believe that if a suppressor was used on a weapon in an active shooter incident you may not see anything wrong with this.

...... so he'll sign for people he knows?   The Good Old Boy Network rides again.

CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT .....   the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.

Kill it With Fire.

.... not that we can at this point, but there will come a time when it will be ..... irrelevant ...... when it comes time to rebuild things, remember.

[depserv]

...... so he'll sign for people he knows?   The Good Old Boy Network rides again.

CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT .....   the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.


Sometimes the term "special need" is used.  According to the Dictionary of Liberal Doublespeak, this is the definition of "special need:"  1.  Having some sort of a connection to the one assessing the need, i.e., family, friend, associate, financial patron, lodge member... 

You are correct about the good old boy network.  Very often throughout human history those in charge decided who could bear arms and who could not, and those who could dominated those who could not.  America is different in that regard.  But people like certain piece-of-trash wannabe despots make it clear that they would make it like that here and now if they could, and they will do everything in their power to make it that way as much as they can.  They are the reason the 2nd Amendment was written in the first place.  The fact that scum like that hold power because of an electoral process shows why the kind of freedom we have in America today is so rare historically.  And it shows how easily it can be lost.

[tstuart34]

This is just one of many possible problems that come from having the mayor's office occupied by a traitor.  As the saying goes, a fish rots from the head down.  All patriots should do everything in our power to get a loyal American elected mayor.  I know that's unlikely in Lincoln, but still worth some effort.  I don't know what percent of the citizens of Lincoln actually vote in the Mayoral race, but I bet it's pretty small.

To be honest I am not a very political person in general and some of that has to do with my age and the fact I was not raised in a political house. I am not going to say that I vote in the Mayoral races because I haven't since I have became of age to vote. Is this a issue...Yes but my point of view has always been I am severally out numbered with the mass majority of Lincoln voting population. So I have chosen not to waste my time. I will however start showing more interest in my community.

  I have just got into guns heavily the last couple of years and NFA stuff in the last few months. So I am not really knowledgeable about how our previous Chief of Police have felt about NFA weapons? Is this something that has just been pasted down from Chief to Chief? Or is it something that he truly has a opinion on?

[tstuart34]

...... so he'll sign for people he knows?   The Good Old Boy Network rides again.

CLEO NFA sign-off is the same strain of bad Law as "May-Issue" Carry Permits..... and "Trusts" are no better: Special People Can, and Proles Can NOT .....   the whole NFA stinks to High Heaven of Progressive Idiotspeak.

Kill it With Fire.

.... not that we can at this point, but there will come a time when it will be ..... irrelevant ...... when it comes time to rebuild things, remember.

I don't know if he will sign off on people he knows. Honestly I don't think his club would be into NFA toys. I'm sure no one in his club has a evil assault rifle.

[Dave67h]

I don't know if he will sign off on people he knows. Honestly I don't think his club would be into NFA toys. I'm sure no one in his club has a evil assault rifle.

Heavens to Betsy, no! The Senator that looks like a ghoul from California says they are dangerous, and therefore I do not need one.

[hangarflying]

Is there no legal recourse?

[tstuart34]

Is there no legal recourse?

For what? Not signig?

[RLMoeller]

Quote from: hangarflying on Today at 09:58:25 AM
Is there no legal recourse?

For what? Not signig?

Certainly seems plausible.  By refusing to sign is that infringing upon a persons 2nd Amendment rights? 

Let's look at what the CLEO signature is suppose to identify.  It is suppose to verify two things.

1. ) I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes.

2. ) I have no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device described in item 4 would be place the transferee in violation of State or local law.

[AAllen]

Interesting idea, an individual suing the CLEO for a civil rights violation because they did not sign even though there was no information that the transferee would use the firearm unlawfully or there would be any law violation from the possession.    HMMMM......

[RobertH]

i've been thinking about this approach.  but we should see how ATF 41P plays out.

[bkoenig]

Interesting idea, an individual suing the CLEO for a civil rights violation because they did not sign even though there was no information that the transferee would use the firearm unlawfully or there would be any law violation from the possession.    HMMMM......

I thought someone had tried this before and didn't get anywhere?  Seems like I remember there being precedent.

It would be cool to team up with the SAF and lay the smack down on Peshong, though.

[tstuart34]

Certainly seems plausible.  By refusing to sign is that infringing upon a persons 2nd Amendment rights? 

Let's look at what the CLEO signature is suppose to identify.  It is suppose to verify two things.

1. ) I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device described on this application for other than lawful purposes.

2. ) I have no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device described in item 4 would be place the transferee in violation of State or local law

That was a commit he made... he did knot know what i was going to do with the weapon. He has no reason to think that i am going to do anything unlawfully. To me it seems a hard point to fight in court. Since he has no information on the purpose of the weapon he does not know if it is for lawful or unlawful use.

Honestly i think the best way to get him is to find some people that he did sign for and get him on the fact he is Discriminating.

I dont know if that will even fly... you guys have been involved in plenty of legal suits and would have a better idea then i do.

Honestly i am with Robert right now. Lets see what happrnds with 41p and then join together and focus thw effort when it is needed.

[tstuart34]

So last night I decided since everyone else was asleep and I had some uninterrupted quiet time I would start to work on a list of officials who could sign off on NFA forms. This list is some what specific for Lincoln and Lancaster County. But the state level Judges and State Police Chief will be the same for everyone.

So my List includes

Local PD
County Sheriff
State Police
City Attorney
County Attorney
State District Attorney
Lancaster County Judges (Total of  8)
State Court of Appeals Judges (Total of 5)
State Supreme Court Judges (Total of 7)

Once I get this Spread sheet fully filled in and formatted I will post it.

Does anyone know if I can send this list to the AFT and make sure that all of the people listed are approved signers? I don't want to put out any false info on this.

Also what does everyone think about sending out a generic letter to all of the unknown signers to find out if they will currently sign or choose not to? Just a simple yes or no with a return envelope to make it as simple as possible for them.

[RobertH]

Also what does everyone think about sending out a generic letter to all of the unknown signers to find out if they will currently sign or choose not to? Just a simple yes or no with a return envelope to make it as simple as possible for them.

i would help, but i kind of want to see what the ATF does first.  what do you think?  should we wait 6 or so more months, just in case they do nothing?

[tstuart34]

I am torn on to set back and wait or send out some letters. A big part of me wants to send out letters. Make it very simple and easy for them and do not bring up anything to do with 41P. This should not be a firestorm of letters just one very simple letter.

It should ask them if they will endorse a form for a sound suppressor, sort barreled rifle/shotgun, or any other type of National Firearm Weapon. Give them a short explanation what the purpose of their endorsement.

Thank them for their response. Ask them to sign below and return it in the preaddressed envelope. 

Give them 3 boxes to check
1. Yes I will sign
2. No I will not sign
3. I need more info on NFA

Their Signature

I think this could be a very helpful thing for people in our area. Maybe someone does not want to create a Trust for NFA items. This may give them information that they need to get what they want. It is a little bit of work but to me I think it is some good info to have in our back pocket.

If anyone thinks I should sit down and shut up let me know. I am not trying to rock the boat just gathering information.