by having CHP....am i bound to CHP rules while open carrying?

[jFader]

There are quite a few specific rules in Nebraska for legally carrying concealed...

At the same time there seems to be very few rules & regulations for someone who chooses to open carry...

I have heard that by possessing a CHP license in Nebraska, "I am expected to adhere to the CHP guidelines whether I carry open or concealed"...?

Is that statement true or false & does anyone have any sources?

I'm assuming that some things overlap, like 'gun free zones', federal bldgs, etc....

I guess at the end of the day, I would like to know are there specific rules for open carry in this state & am I bound to all of the chp rules when I elect to open carry?

Thanks in advance!

[SemperFiGuy]

jfade:

Some time ago I checked this particular issue out with a Staff Attorney from the Nebraska State Patrol.

Below please find the full correspondence, with names redacted:

===================================================

Thank you for submitting a question to the Nebraska State Patrol. In your email, you said, “Can a person who holds a valid, current CHP permit (no part of the handgun may be visible) decide to switch to the open carry mode and then openly carry a visible handgun under Nebraska law? The openly carried handgun would then be visible.   But..CHP holders are not supposed to show their handguns openly (visibly).”

 

There are no laws regulating open carry of handguns in the State of Nebraska. Any individual who may lawfully possess a handgun can open carry. There is also no law or regulation in Nebraska stating that concealed handgun permit holders are required to carry in a concealed manner. A concealed handgun permit holder can carry in the open at any time. The last part of your email, which states, “But..CHP holders are not supposed to show their handguns openly (visibly)” is incorrect. This is not a requirement under state or federal law.

I hope this information is helpful. Should you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

=================================================

DanW and I were discussing this issue on this Forum.   To obtain a definitive legal decision, I directly contacted the Nebraska State Patrol.

DanW was correct; Listen to DanW.

sfgBTW:  When the NSP Staff Attorney says, "There are no laws regulating open carry of handguns in the State of Nebraska", she means that there are no applicable State Statutes.   I promise you there are City of Omaha Municipal Codes that govern open carry in Omaha.   Start w/Omaha MuniCode 20-207.

 



 

[jFader]

Awesome...thank you SFG! I figured that someone else had already crossed this bridge & had the knowledge that I needed!

[SemperFiGuy]

jFade:

FWIW, I'm still non-plussed by the possible contradiction of the above official information with this definition from the Nebraska Administrative Code:

002 DEFINITIONS
002.03  “Concealed handgun” shall mean totally hidden from view with no portion of the handgun visible.

Further, once a citizen gets crosswise with the legal system, the process is highly unstable, dependent upon the LEOs, judge, prosecution, defense lawyers, jury (if paneled), and whatever else.   The weather, maybe.......

May you never draw your handgun in fear nor anger.

sfg

[bullit]

SFG....  can you elaborate as to why you think there is a relationship of this definition below AND that this PRESCRIBES the only manner in which a CHP holder can legally carry (e.g. OC vice CC)?  Forgive me if I am not seeing it or not understanding your implication.

FWIW, I'm still non-plussed by the possible contradiction of the above official information with this definition from the Nebraska Administrative Code:

002 DEFINITIONS
002.03  “Concealed handgun” shall mean totally hidden from view with no portion of the handgun visible.

[SemperFiGuy]

Bullitt:

Well, I'll try.  Yes, I'm probably being too literal in my reading of the NAC definition above.
Plus, somewhere in my readings of the legal stuff I (very dimly) remember coming across the expression, "concealed means concealed."   Can't find it since.

Consequently, I've imprinted on the idea that if a CHP holder carries concealed, then no part of the handgun may ever show (let's leave out the issue of "printing" for the moment).

So--when the NSP Staff Attorney in effect says to go ahead and open carry, that advice sorta conflicts with what I thought I knew and understood.

Actually, doesn't affect me one way or the other, since Open Carry is not my forte.   But on this Forum, several folks do.

That's about it.

sfg

[bullit]

SFG....thanks for the reply....I am not seeing the DEFINITION of concealed, being extrapolated/interpreted to being limited to such.  The phrase "concealed means concealed" is one I use frequently when people inquire about carrying in a "forbidden zone" or "printing".  The issue of "printing" is an ilLOGICal topic to me.    I am with you ... I do not OC (intentionally) but I am glad we do not have law forbidding such in Nebraska if I were to "flash" my gun. 

[tstuart34]

I dont have my CCW permit yet and i am versed on the laws. But if i understand some of it correctly a person can not drink and carry concealed. Based on this can a person have a CCW permit open carry and drink?

[jFader]

I dont have my CCW permit yet and i am versed on the laws. But if i understand some of it correctly a person can not drink and carry concealed. Based on this can a person have a CCW permit open carry and drink?

That is a question that I want to know. Last night I drank several beers while working in my garage, then I went outside to unload my truck...at such point, can I switch to open carry?

[SemperFiGuy]

Bullit:

I am not seeing the DEFINITION of concealed, being extrapolated/interpreted to being limited to such.

You and the NSP Staff Attorney appear to be of One Mind in this regard.   I'm a bit slow, but am getting there.

======================================

jfade:

Last night I drank several beers while working in my garage, then I went outside to unload my truck...at such point, can I switch to open carry?

My unqualified, inexpert opinion is while on your property, you can carry anyway you want.   Just so your neighbors don't get alarmed and call 911 w/"Man w/Gun"  or "Disturbing the Peace" complaint.   Or if your locale should happen to have an anti-brandishing law.

Once you leave the property, if carrying CHP, then ZERO alcohol in blood, breath, and/or urine, per Nebraska Administrative Code on CHP.    Good idea to wait at least 8 hours after last drink.  You can Google # Drinks vs. Wait Time.   Separate topic.

If carrying under Open Carry, then it's most likely that the usual public drinking laws apply to the B-B-U levels and limits.

But....if you've already had Several Beers, best stay home and flip on TV for a while.

However, I still want you on Our Team, given your capacity for Thinking Outside the Box.

sfg

[2550sx]

a person who holds a CHP is "ALLOWED" to carry a "Totally" "CONCEALED" handgun with "NO PART OF IT SHOWING". Following all the other rules of course. A person "WITHOUT" a "CHP" is NOT ALLOWED to carry a CONCEALED gun with NO PART OF IT SHOWING. Therefor if a person who is found by LEO to be carrying a "Concealed" gun they can be charged for that. (without being a CHP holder). Doesn't mean that a CHP holder "HAS TO CARRY CONCEALED. AND NO OTHER WAY.........Hence a "CHP" holder can open carry if desired like anyone else can.......
Carrying a concealed gun without a permit is a "Felony".   
Open carry is "not unlawfull"

[barmandr]

My question is what responsible gun owner would carry, concealed or open, after drinking?  Imagine if you used the weapon with a substance in your body which alters your ability to use good sound judgment?  That's simply irresponsible to put yourself in that position.  You'd be a prosecutor's wet dream.  If you drink, do not arm yourself.

[jFader]

My question is what responsible gun owner would carry, concealed or open, after drinking?  Imagine if you used the weapon with a substance in your body which alters your ability to use good sound judgment?  That's simply irresponsible to put yourself in that position.  You'd be a prosecutor's wet dream.  If you drink, do not arm yourself.

Would you also consider it irresponsible to use a firearm in the event of a home invasion if you had drank a few that night? I'm definitely not talking about getting smashed & carrying a firearm... I was thinking along the lines of a few beers versus the absolute zero tolerance that is specifically stated in the chp requirements. Also, after a dinner out with my wife where i drink 2 beers, should I remove a handgun from the vehicle & lock it up in the trunk before we drive home? I think that these are valid questions & I'm sure that I'm not the first person to have thought about them.

[tstuart34]

My question is what responsible gun owner would carry, concealed or open, after drinking?  Imagine if you used the weapon with a substance in your body which alters your ability to use good sound judgment?  That's simply irresponsible to put yourself in that position.  You'd be a prosecutor's wet dream.  If you drink, do not arm yourself.

I understand what you are saying but i am with jfad on this. Not trying to start a fight but how is drinking and being armed vs drinking and drinking and driving honestly i think your a larger threat driving.

[Gary]

For sometimes drinking, and sometimes having a gun, can be done at 100% separate times, with nothing crossing paths.  That is easy.

Concealed Carry, is a 24/7 discipline for many of us.  Not much opportunity to blend the two. 

[Dan W]

Carrying a concealed gun without a permit is a "Felony". 

First offense is not a Felony...

Nebraska Revised Statute 28-1202
Revised Statutes » Chapter 28 » 28-1202
Print Friendly
28-1202. Carrying concealed weapon; penalty; affirmative defense.

(1)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, any person who carries a weapon or weapons concealed on or about his or her person, such as a handgun, a knife, brass or iron knuckles, or any other deadly weapon, commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon.

(b) It is an affirmative defense that the defendant was engaged in any lawful business, calling, or employment at the time he or she was carrying any weapon or weapons and the circumstances in which such person was placed at the time were such as to justify a prudent person in carrying the weapon or weapons for the defense of his or her person, property, or family.

(2) This section does not apply to a person who is the holder of a valid permit issued under the Concealed Handgun Permit Act if the concealed weapon the defendant is carrying is a handgun.

(3) Carrying a concealed weapon is a Class I misdemeanor.

(4) In the case of a second or subsequent conviction under this section, carrying a concealed weapon is a Class IV felony.
Source

    Laws 1977, LB 38, § 234;
    Laws 1984, LB 1095, § 1;
    Laws 2006, LB 454, § 22;
    Laws 2009, LB63, § 10.

[AWick]

Let's not get into the judgement issue of having a beer and carrying, let's keep this on the legal side. We all know the law is zero tolerance while CONCEALED carry, the question posed is the possible legal aspects of a CHP holder either OPEN carrying or transporting a firearm while above 0.000 BAC. I've enjoyed what those before have wrote and discussed but want to keep the discussion on how this applies to CHP holders.

For example, I know lots of folks that have met up the night before a reunion-type hunt or day at the range and had several brewskies then got up at 0430 and went hunting. I guarantee they were above 0.000 BAC. In fact, back when I turned 21 I received my first pistol as a gift (Springfield GI 1911A1). That evening I went out and did what any college kid turning 21 would do... study... jk... well Anyways, the morning after, despite feeling slightly under the weather, a bunch of friends and I went out target shooting and I know we were probably still above 0.000 BAC. We weren't concealed carry, but we open carried in the woods and obviously transported the firearms to and from the woods. What limitations, if any, would a CHP holder have in this instance that legally could get him/her in hot water? If a person was hunting would there be NG&P rules that would then lead to a violation under the CHP laws?

[Dan W]

All these questions and no way to answer them...it all will have to be hashed out in a court of law, because that is how these things are settled.

A fella with a CHP was arrested some time back for a very low BAC and a concealed handgun in his car at a rental unit doing some cleanup (IIRC)  Don't know how that one turned out.

But really, if you find the CHP requirements to restrictive, you could forgo the permit and choose to carry under statute 28-1202 (quoted in another post above) and take your chances with the jury.. You know you will be prosecuted , but you may have an affirmative defense the judge will find reasonable...though having been drinking might make that bit tougher to sell

As for the home invasion scenario, that situation would not be a concealed carry situation. Even if you kept the handgun concealed from view, it is not a concealed weapon inside your home, or every gun you own and store in your home not in plain sight would be a concealed weapon, and that would be ludicrous!

I am not a lawyer, and I don't drink alcohol, ever, so maybe my view is not worth considering

[AWick]

Dan - the mongoose - W (nice avatar update, btw)

Trying to look up different laws that I could find I think it definitely narrows down to a giant gray area. I'm sure that a lot of it is not technically "illegal" but one could definitely get themselves in trouble in a hurry. I personally don't feel that the CHP rules are too restrictive to the point of not getting a CHP, that's why I got mine. jFade is doing what I think any CHP holder should do and really explore the complete extent of the rules and regulations regarding the permit. It's not in a manner to push the envelope and test you're luck, but to know the rules to literally the letter of the law. I've personally found it quite useful when a drastically uninformed person lashes out at me about the notion of concealed carry and tries to compare us to a bunch of loony Yosemite Sams. They then quickly prod my arguments with baseless spin dribble and being knowledgeable enough about the laws helps me to counter their arguments. I may not always, or ever, change their minds, but at least for a brief moment get to make them feel like idiots.

[jFader]

I don't find the rules too restrictive to follow. I am very new to concealed carry & figured that if I had some questions about concealed carry laws in Nebraska this would be the forum to ask.
 
i think where my brain got fried with legislative bs, was when I read somewhere that you can't carry at all in Omaha unless you have a chp, then you can open carry in Omaha (at your own risk)

I don't plan on violating the laws or attempting to be a test case to clarify the rules...just trying to understand what the existing laws are


When asking the original question, I had several aspects in mind as far as open vs chp...

#1requirement to notify (having chp I will likely error on the side of caution & notify upon contact)
#2 prohibited places- I realize some places listed on the chp list are posted 'gun free'..are hospitals, places of worship, political rallies, establishments that make 51% of sales by alcohol, etc covered by a different statute
#3 Zero tolerance bac
 
are these exclusive to chp holders? Or are parts restricted by other laws

I appreciate everyones responses so far, especially those that see this as a policy/legal discussion from a proud Nebraska gun owner eager to gain knowledge & training in the art of carrying concealed.