Author Topic: Declaration when not carrying (Read 13522 times)

unfy · « **on:** February 19, 2014, 04:53:01 PM »

Just some food for thought.

Last night - after trip to Capital and a full day of work, was at a gas station near my new place and chatting with a Sarpy deputy. I sadly don't recall his name, but like most officers he was a nice guy.

Anyhoo, the conversation turned to carry stuff... and in the middle of the carry conversation I had asked what the preference was on declaring as a permit holder who is not armed. His take was this:

He immediately stated that he understands that if you're not carrying you don't have to declare. And that the preference depends on the officer etc.

This particular guy would prefer someone who does have a carry permit that is NOT armed to go ahead and declare said fact. That way when they run your ID and see that you DO have a permit, they don't have to wonder WTF is going on.

He had talked about a woman who had a permit and TWICE didn't declare while in the presence of this guy (not sure if he was backup both times or what... the second time she was being arrested for something ELSE, btw). They confiscated the gun, issued receipt, etc.

Just as an aside - the whole declare ya do have a permit and aren't armed seems to be a decent idea in a State that requires declaration anyway. This way if they return and are nervous - you're not staring down the barrel of the officer's glock

.

SemperFiGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2014, 09:30:05 PM »

Quote

Just as an aside - the whole declare ya do have a permit and aren't armed seems to be a decent idea in a State that requires declaration anyway. This way if they return and are nervous - you're not staring down the barrel of the officer's glock

This approach makes all the sense in the world. And is what I suggest to my CHP classes. It's just good old plain common sense. It clears the air. Gets the Gun Thing out of the way.

sfg

Mntnman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:01:40 AM »

I'm going to watch this discussion with interest. I have been of the mindset not to declare if not carrying. If a glock is pulled on me because officer sees I have a carry permit and I didn't declare, that is an experience to be used to rectify the bs duty to inform part of the law and indicate a possible issue with said officer's ability to do their job effectively and safely.

The practible part of me agrees to get it out there and avoid possible uncomfortable situations, although the wrong officer could be set off by declaring. That would be rare, I believe, but I am aware of it happening.

DaveB · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2014, 11:41:08 AM »

Are any officers going to believe you? Once they see you have a permit, they are going to question you anyway. I can see the point to tell the officer you don't have a gun, even though the permit holders are probably the most honest of the two people at site of the stop.

RobertH · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2014, 01:25:46 PM »

i declare all the time and its always the first thing i say.

i usually say something like: "Hello officer. I am a Nebraska concealed carry permit holder. I am/am not carrying. How would you like to proceed?"

unfy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2014, 04:58:45 PM »

Quote from: DaveB on February 20, 2014, 11:41:08 AM

Are any officers going to believe you? Once they see you have a permit, they are going to question you anyway.

Every officer I've talked to (a dozen or so) have all said same thing: concealed carry folks aren't "the problem" and that they generally trust them because they went through the legal hoops to get their permit.

Quote from: Mntnman on February 20, 2014, 11:01:40 AM

The practible part of me agrees to get it out there and avoid possible uncomfortable situations, although the wrong officer could be set off by declaring. That would be rare, I believe, but I am aware of it happening.

Given that you know they are going to discover you have a permit at any rate, it seems to make sense to help diffuse a possible nervous situation that might happen soon - before it occurs.

I know plenty of folks don't trust the police, or have negative views of them. I have strong suggestions for police brutality - and am wholly against the militarization of the police. But, for me: the police start out with a bit of respect and have to earn more / lose said respect themselves on a personal basis. You're also in a situation that needs to get resolved (either by disagreeing with the officer or getting your citation/warning) - a bit of respect in both directions goes a long way. At the very least, they can make your life very uncomfortable for a few hours if you decide to be an ass to them, so showing some respect can go a long way.

I've had one officer attempt to keep control of a given situation via talking constantly which made my initial declaration requirement a bit rude (having to forcibly interrupt him heh)... but I've not yet had a bad experience concerning carrying / officers.

I know of a singular video or story of folks of similar above situation where the officer went ballistic after not letting someone declare (in a state requiring it), but I don't believe any have happened here in NE. That officer was also punished, for what it's worth.

Quote from: Mntnman on February 20, 2014, 11:01:40 AM

I'm going to watch this discussion with interest. I have been of the mindset not to declare if not carrying. If a glock is pulled on me because officer sees I have a carry permit and I didn't declare, that is an experience to be used to rectify the bs duty to inform part of the law and indicate a possible issue with said officer's ability to do their job effectively and safely.

What combination of things could occur that would cause an officer to draw on you for not declaring ? Being in a bad part of town, giving the officer attitude, how you were driving in the first place, maybe the officer got swung on by the guy before you, some instinct fires up ? Surly it would probably be astronomically impossible for the 'gun drawn' situation to occur... but ...

You'd really like to use something as innocuous as a 3AM traffic stop to put yourself in a situation where your life might be in danger as a protest against a law you disagree with ?

There are better ways to do so. An easy one off the top of my head: go dig up statistics of states with or without the declaration requirement and how it affects officer safety.

unfy · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2014, 06:36:07 PM »

Most recent post seemed aggressive. That was my intent. Apologies if stepped on any toes.

Mntnman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2014, 06:52:26 PM »

I, of course, would react according to the officer's attitude and see that nothing escalates the stop. I am not one that is going to be in a car at 3 am, gun or not, either. I don't think an officer would pull a gun on someone just for seeing they have a permit.

I did have a DOT ask me one time if I was carrying (before permit). I said "No, why?"

He had seen my purchase permit in my wallet. I have yet to be pulled over since getting my permit and am still wondering how to handle it, this is a good thought provoker. I drive for a living but company policy dictates no weapons, even though my bosses are pro-carry.

Do any of you have a gold star on your license? If you haven't heard about it, I encourage you to look into it.

Poor Man · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2014, 07:06:38 PM »

Mntnman --- Please elaborate on the "gold star" mentioned in your post.

UPCrawfish · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2014, 07:14:15 PM »

You can google 'gold star drivers license'. Has to do with federal legislation mandating additional personal data be included imbedded in the card.

unfy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2014, 08:29:34 PM »

Quote from: Mntnman on February 20, 2014, 06:52:26 PM

I have yet to be pulled over since getting my permit and am still wondering how to handle it, this is a good thought provoker.

Care to clarify 'this' in relation to thought provoking ?

If you're armed, you declare. If you're not armed - up to you to decide if you declare or not (purpose of this thread was to give one officer's opinion on the matter).

I've been in a stopped car at least once (as passenger).

I've had non vehicle official contact 3 or 4 times at least.

Outside of the duty to declare and that the officers have reacted favorably - nothing terribly interesting to note in my particular experiences.... other than maybe it's a bit of an ice breaker and gives ya something to idly chat about heh. I believe all but one of my encounters involved a "oh, what do you carry?" question

AWick · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:25:26 PM »

Quote from: Mntnman on February 20, 2014, 06:52:26 PM

Do any of you have a gold star on your license?

I just got a new license when we moved two months ago, and thought that it was a Nebraska badge indicating a CHP, but then my wife (no license) had the same gold star. I had thought that the DMV wasn't allowed to mark our licenses...

Found this:

https://cis.org/real-id-implementation-report

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2014, 10:08:54 PM »

Was just looking at www.gunowners.com and the Quinn VS Texas article.
Not sure if this is on topic or not....but it seems a carry permit has other potential consequences.

John Quinn was asleep in his bed when Texas police broke down his door in the middle of the night, and shot him when he reached for a weapon, thinking his home was being invaded. The police were there to serve a search warrant for his son, Brian, who they suspected of dealing drugs.

The only justification for the no-knock raid that police gave was that John Quinn owned a firearm. The police claimed that firearms ownership was enough to present a danger to law enforcement, even though they knew John Quinn had a concealed carry permit — meaning the state of Texas had pronounced him to be a safe, law-abiding citizen.

unfy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2014, 10:39:40 PM »

No knock warrants are wholly illegal IMHO.... but that doesn't change the reality of the situation (that such things exist).

In regards to Quinn -> officers in question should have been charged with murder (prolly second degree). At least, that's what should happen legally ... cough.

But yes, you do provide an excellent example of registration (for say concealed carry in this case) leading to heavy handed gov't action. Most site confiscation, but this is a good alternate example.

Mntnman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2014, 07:28:51 AM »

By "this" I mean this thread's discussion.

skydve76 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2014, 07:39:51 AM »

A lot humans once given this type of power are no longer people. Too bad he didnt get a shot off and make them reassess how things may go and weigh the risks properly.

I never declare when not carrying. Youve been beat down to believe this a privilege. Im not anti cop or anything but if they pull me over for 1 out 3 brake lights out, then they can ask if i am carrying to which I will not respond if I am not carrying.

We both have laws to follow I can be a literal bastard too just like them.

Last time I was pulled over I didnt declare because I wasnt carrying and the didnt ask. Good cops.

Quote from: SS_N_NE on February 20, 2014, 10:08:54 PM

Was just looking at www.gunowners.com and the Quinn VS Texas article.
Not sure if this is on topic or not....but it seems a carry permit has other potential consequences.

John Quinn was asleep in his bed when Texas police broke down his door in the middle of the night, and shot him when he reached for a weapon, thinking his home was being invaded. The police were there to serve a search warrant for his son, Brian, who they suspected of dealing drugs.

The only justification for the no-knock raid that police gave was that John Quinn owned a firearm. The police claimed that firearms ownership was enough to present a danger to law enforcement, even though they knew John Quinn had a concealed carry permit — meaning the state of Texas had pronounced him to be a safe, law-abiding citizen.

Mntnman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2014, 08:05:12 AM »

National ID Card. It looks like half of the states are not complying. I have seen it claimed that citizens in nonparticipating states won't be able to board planes without a passport.

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2014, 08:19:59 AM »

The Quinn example also has to be taken with a grain of salt. The essense is alarming. Researching the whole story leaves me confused on who is who and what really happened. Appears the event is still a legal quagmire and who might be playing what angle.

I still see my right to bear arms being regulated by privilege type law and hoops. Then that regulation process being manipulated and subject to interpretation by law enforcement. It is that manipulation/interpretation that disturbes me since I have seen too many examples of citizens being subject to a chain of events by individual lack of understanding or manipulation of law.

sidearm1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2014, 09:15:32 AM »

unfy and others: No knock warrants are not illegal, see state statute 29-411. It reads in part: " if the judge or magistrate issuing a search warrant has inserted a direction therein that the officer executing it shall not be required to give such notice"

DaveB · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2014, 10:34:35 AM »

Back to the gold star on the DL. I don't have one, but I renewed by mail without going in to the court house. I wonder if that may have something to do with it. Mine was issued 7/2012 so it may have not yet been implemented either.