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Author Topic: Declaration when not carrying  (Read 14569 times)

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2014, 07:48:49 PM »
For me it’s about safety, it’s the major reason I DO carry.  Safety in all things.  Not advising an officer weather carrying or not is a safety issue, my safety.  I don’t like having guns pointed at me, I don’t like officers yelling or even getting a bit upset when they are armed.  The very last thing I want to do is irritate him/her, so I opt for the safety of making it plain that I have one and I am/am not carrying.  Think about it folks, why do you carry if not for safety? 

Safety first, last, and always.  Anything else is a testosterone high.
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Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2014, 07:55:44 PM »
Just as a philosophical aside:

Concerning strengthening / weakening laws etc....

The USA has been around for over 200 years.  Nebraska has been a State for nearly 150 years.  Surly after all these years there is no need to pass NEW laws and that everything has been covered already ?

"Job Justification" for those who are elected.  "See what I DID?!?!"




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Offline Dan W

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2014, 08:13:54 PM »
Safety first, last, and always

Ben Franklin thinks a bit differently
Quote
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


Call it testosterone induced bravado if you want, but I will not be declaring unless I am armed, because I am just not willing to give up any more liberty than I am forced to
Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Bucket

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2014, 08:26:00 AM »

Ben Franklin thinks a bit differently

Call it testosterone induced bravado if you want, but I will not be declaring unless I am armed, because I am just not willing to give up any more liberty than I am forced to
I wouldn't call telling a police officer who is making official contact that you are unarmed giving up an "essential liberty."  I understand what you are getting at, but to me it's not a fundamental issue since you know it's going to come up anyway when he runs your license and sees you have a CHP.  It's just saving him the trouble and allowing you to better manage the interaction to your own benefit.

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2014, 02:47:53 PM »
One of the problems is that there are WAY TOO MANY LAWS in this country.
http://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/29326904495/16-a-problems


It has happened before in other countries.  Here are some solutions:
http://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/29327306986/16-b-solutions


Those are introductory cartoons.  The rest are on the website.

Or, buy the book.  It is a great read:
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Criminal-Law/dp/1598391836/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348005559&sr=1-1
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 02:50:16 PM by GreyGeek »

Offline DaveB

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2014, 04:43:25 PM »
I've decided I will not declare unless I am carrying. The law states that I declare while carrying and I will obey the law.

I refuse to be treated as a criminal for declaring I am not carrying. I can't see that happening in Nebraska, but if it does, it will be on video as I have now gone to that for all contact. Trust begins with the cops in a situation with me as I am not a criminal, and unless when they stop me and the car is reported stolen, I am still not a criminal or a threat to them. All they have to do is ask if I am carrying and I will answer the question. I trust less people in this world every day, and I cannot see it getting any better with so many wanting to take everything you have one way or another. Hence, the reason I carry.

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2014, 06:03:57 PM »
After giving this more laws or less laws more thought, I can see I was wrong.

We shouldn't need more laws to give us the rights we already have.  We just need to get rid of the laws that are suppressing our rights. 
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline 00BUCK

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2014, 09:07:19 PM »
A little over a year ago I got pulled over for speeding on Pacific St in Omaha. I wasn't carrying and didn't inform the officer. He never asked and the contact for all intents and purposes was good - except for getting a ticket. That's how it should be. I don't offer any more info than I am legally obligated to.

Offline shovelhead69

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2014, 10:55:43 AM »
Sound's like a lot of folk are scared of police contact on here. So you declare to be "not carrying" even though you have no legal obligation to do so, for fear of the police officer's reaction?  Seem's we have a police state mind set running rampant and that is the true issue at hand.





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Offline Bucket

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2014, 11:13:24 AM »
Sound's like a lot of folk are scared of police contact on here. So you declare to be "not carrying" even though you have no legal obligation to do so, for fear of the police officer's reaction?  Seem's we have a police state mind set running rampant and that is the true issue at hand.






I wouldn't argue with you, but I'm not looking to be a test case, martyr, or role model.  If I get pulled over and I'm not carrying, it costs me nothing to tell him right up front and diffuse a situation and maybe create some sort of connection with the cop (as most of them are gun owners themselves).  I wouldn't call it an essential point of liberty since he has access to my permit records and would be fully within his authority to pull me out of the car and pat me down for his own safety. 

Until there is more general acceptance and clear limits on police conduct with regard to citizens gun rights, I'm taking the path that's going to get me back on the road soonest without pissing off the cop who pulled me over.

Offline DaveB

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2014, 12:34:01 PM »
I wouldn't argue with you, but I'm not looking to be a test case, martyr, or role model.  If I get pulled over and I'm not carrying, it costs me nothing to tell him right up front and diffuse a situation and maybe create some sort of connection with the cop (as most of them are gun owners themselves).  I wouldn't call it an essential point of liberty since he has access to my permit records and would be fully within his authority to pull me out of the car and pat me down for his own safety. 

Until there is more general acceptance and clear limits on police conduct with regard to citizens gun rights, I'm taking the path that's going to get me back on the road soonest without pissing off the cop who pulled me over.
So, you would tell him you drink alcohol and smoke pot too, but don't have any in the car right now? The police are known to instill fear on people in order to get easy convictions. While it doesn't happen out here where I am, there are countless videos on Youtube of it. Fear is their greatest asset, even when it isn't necessary.

I also don't argue with them, they know as soon as they look at you if you are getting a ticket or not. I'll just take the ticket and be on my way.

Offline Bucket

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2014, 09:50:41 PM »
So, you would tell him you drink alcohol and smoke pot too, but don't have any in the car right now? The police are known to instill fear on people in order to get easy convictions. While it doesn't happen out here where I am, there are countless videos on Youtube of it. Fear is their greatest asset, even when it isn't necessary.

I also don't argue with them, they know as soon as they look at you if you are getting a ticket or not. I'll just take the ticket and be on my way.

I don't smoke pot and don't drink and drive.  Both are illegal, so I probably would be reluctant to 'fess up to that sort of behavior in the presence of law enforcement.

I've never been pulled over while carrying, but have twice been with a buddy who was pulled over while carrying.  Once in Bellevue and once in LaVista.  Both times we drove away after after a warning and a brief discussion on handguns.  I've managed to talk my way out of a few tickets myself.  I find establishing a rapport, being respectful, and making the cops job easier tends to smooth the transaction.

Is that giving up some sort of liberty?  I don't really think it is, it's just managing the situation on a personal level.

Offline unfy

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2014, 09:55:38 PM »
Didn't expect this to be such a thorny thread.  Oops.



Can someone with some history go about saying who requested the 'declare while carrying' clause ? It might help this discussion.  I know that this was all a long time ago, but it really might help this thread a bit.



There are a lot of bad stories seen on the news of police acting quite badly and some police policy / militarization that is definitely cause for concern.

Most of those stories come out of LA or NY (or personal stories I've heard from Chicago).

But I have yet to meet an officer that gave me pause here in Nebraska. 

Until such time as I see otherwise: officers will be greeted with a smile, a hand shake, and be called sir... as well as afforded all the other politeness and pleasantries any other human deserves.



And for those wondering, not declaring while not carrying becomes a liberty discussion as it relates to privacy and stuff.  There is a lot of 4A stuff relating to 'papers please' if no one's considered it :D

hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline DaveB

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2014, 11:43:16 PM »
I wouldn't argue with you, but I'm not looking to be a test case, martyr, or role model.  If I get pulled over and I'm not carrying, it costs me nothing to tell him right up front and diffuse a situation and maybe create some sort of connection with the cop (as most of them are gun owners themselves).  I wouldn't call it an essential point of liberty since he has access to my permit records and would be fully within his authority to pull me out of the car and pat me down for his own safety. 

Until there is more general acceptance and clear limits on police conduct with regard to citizens gun rights, I'm taking the path that's going to get me back on the road soonest without pissing off the cop who pulled me over.

Now you are getting what I am saying. I have a beer or two at home, it is legal. I have a gun at home, it is legal also. Since I don't drink or drive, and sometimes leave the house without a gun, I don't go blabbing to anyone that I drink and shoot, but don't have any of it with me. Both are legal, neither are required to be told to an officer, unless he asks of course. If I were asked about either one, I would tell the officer that I don't have either in the car.

Offline HuskerXDM

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2014, 06:54:33 AM »
I enjoyed reading that series. In fact I should go back and reread it...

One of the problems is that there are WAY TOO MANY LAWS in this country.
http://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/29326904495/16-a-problems


It has happened before in other countries.  Here are some solutions:
http://thecriminallawyer.tumblr.com/post/29327306986/16-b-solutions


Those are introductory cartoons.  The rest are on the website.

Or, buy the book.  It is a great read:
http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Guide-Criminal-Law/dp/1598391836/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348005559&sr=1-1
The master has failed more than the beginner has even tried.

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2014, 05:45:34 PM »

Ben Franklin thinks a bit differently

Call it testosterone induced bravado if you want, but I will not be declaring unless I am armed, because I am just not willing to give up any more liberty than I am forced to

The comment was in reference to firearms and safety, not politics.  In my book advisements are not a political issue but a safety issue.  The day the state does away with that requirement then I also will not advise, at least until I feel my safety may be in jeopardy. 

I realize that what I do for a living irritates some around here, but I don’t work for the NFOA so I would rather be treated like other members who have more conventional jobs.  I don’t bring my work into this forum, please don’t do it for me.
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2014, 07:46:10 PM »
My comments have nothing to do with your job, but rather your statement 

Quote
Safety first, last, and always.  Anything else is a testosterone high.

I think it was a rather pointed political jab, and and so was my response. 

Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline Tim McBride

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2014, 09:11:39 PM »
As a Sheriff's Deputy I guess I really don't care one way or the other, because the stop will be conducted the same way either way. My usual response to "I have a Gun on me" is "Well don't shoot me" or "Keep yours holstered and so will I", in a light joking manner. I was a CCW holder long before I became a LEO, I know it can be nervous for the CCW holder at times.
Telling me "I don't have a gun on me", would, if anything, probably make me take notice of you as I'd just find it an odd statement to make.

As to the declaration portion of the law, I think it is a pointless piece of legislative.(Then again I wish we had Constitutional Carry)

Then again, I am in rural Western Nebraska, I am sure things go quite different in the Metro areas.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 09:14:12 PM by Tim McBride »

Offline Ronvandyn

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2014, 10:45:47 PM »
My comments have nothing to do with your job, but rather your statement 

I think it was a rather pointed political jab, and and so was my response. 



Obviously we think differently.  I consider my safety when running into a police officer as paramount, and I am in no physical shape to jump out of the car or to take on a cop.  No wish to either, in a previous incarnation I was one.  The relative safety (or lack thereof) of a normal traffic stop is one of the reasons I am no longer one.  I have kids, lots of them, and they would have a very hard life without me in the picture.  What I do now is far safer, and keeps me on the very outer edge of the LEO circle.  It’s comfortable here.

The "testosterone" bit was about the "macho" thing one sees so often now days in social media (of which the NFOA is certainly a part, we have all seen them here).  The “Anonymity” of the internet allows people to bluster and put on a show simply because they CAN be anonymous, hence the testosterone injection from such activity.   One can refuse to think about safety on social media and bluster all day every day, but the reality is that when we have a firearm on us safety is our first concern.  Ben Franklin didn’t have an armed police force to deal with, to be concerned about.  In fact he didn’t even like the idea of a standing army, as concerned many of our founding fathers.  The local constable, if armed, carried the very same weapons Ben had in his closet at home or in his hand. 

Bucket got the point, managing the interaction for the safety and benefit of all.  The officer can manage it, sure, but then again so can we as citizens.  Cops are my friends, and I respect them and the job they do.  The job has changed a great deal since I did it, the criminals are more coarse, more ruthless, more apt to shoot and without care of who is harmed by their actions.  My father was a cop, he never wore a vest in his entire career.  Times were gentler then, fewer armed criminals and more general respect in our communities.  Now days cops without a vest are rare, and in my opinion are not real bright.
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Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Declaration when not carrying
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2014, 10:43:46 AM »
As a Sheriff's Deputy I guess I really don't care one way or the other, because the stop will be conducted the same way either way......

You seem to be a reasonable fellow but YoutTube is filled with video evidence of a LOT of LEOs who are not.  If you don't mind my asking,  ...  I am assuming that, with a CHP, if I get stopped the LEO will already have gotten my  info from my license plate number and already knows that I have a CHP. Is that true for all LEOs in the state or just those in large cities?   

IF I am NOT carrying at the moment and do not say so, isn't he right in assuming that I AM carrying and that I violated the law by not announcing that?    To me, this seems like a gray area that can be exploited by over zealous LEOs and prosecuting attorneys.    So, despite you concern about someone annoucing that they are not carrying, if I am ever stopped the first words out of my mouth will be "As you many know, I have a CHP,  and/but I want you to know that I am/not carrying."