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Author Topic: Modify or stock?  (Read 2152 times)

Offline sremmus

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Modify or stock?
« on: March 02, 2014, 12:52:24 PM »
I have been wanting to put a drop in trigger in my Glock 19 and finally found what I wanted!  First off I use this gun for target shooting, home defence, and I'm planning on carrying this gun!  Then I heard that it could bring up legal issues if I used this gun modified in a self defence situation!  What that sucks!  Any info would be greatly app. 

Offline Lorimor

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 01:11:38 PM »
My inclination is to leave it stock.  One less variable.  The jury will not be made up of NEFOA members.

The stock Glock trigger is plenty good for CCW purposes if you put time in it.
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Offline gsd

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 07:10:20 PM »
Most instructors I know will recommend you DO NOT modify a carry firearm beyond perhaps night sights and an extended slide/safety.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline JTH

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 07:25:52 PM »
I have been wanting to put a drop in trigger in my Glock 19 and finally found what I wanted!  First off I use this gun for target shooting, home defence, and I'm planning on carrying this gun!  Then I heard that it could bring up legal issues if I used this gun modified in a self defence situation!  What that sucks!  Any info would be greatly app. 


I think:

1) it would depend on what trigger you put in---you need something completely reliable that doesn't remove or negate any of the safeties,
2) the glock trigger can only be made so good---in the end, unless you spend several hundred dollars on gunsmith work, it'll still be 3-4 pounds--it'll just feel crisper and slightly lighter, and the really light ones aren't reliable with all types of ammo (see #1),
3) from a legal perspective, the changes in the trigger won't be visible externally, and it isn't like you'd be advertising it,
4) simply putting in a minus connector, and polishing up the parts make a huge difference right there, and lastly,
5) doing #4 and simply dryfiring it a lot will smooth it out nicely, along with the added bonus of that practice making you better.

Is there a particular reason why you wanted a drop-in trigger?  If you just want a better feeling pull, do #4 and #5.  If you really need a drop-in trigger for some reason, bear in mind #1-3.  (And don't buy the Haley Skimmer trigger unless they've redesigned it to not negate one of the safeties.)

There are a number of good aftermarket trigger assemblies for Glocks out there.  However, those are the ones marketed for competition.  The ones advertised as "carry triggers" aren't necessarily that much different than the factory trigger (well, least the ones before they started putting in the "dot" connector).  They generally don't reduce the pull, and while they are smoother, you can do that on your own with some polish and some practice.

With respect to "legal issues," I don't see much of a problem with aftermarket triggers, IF you remember #1 and #3.

If you had wanted a GOOD trigger, you probably should have gotten an M&P with Apex parts, or a 1911.  :)  (Says the guy who uses Glocks in competition and carry.)

What trigger were you thinking about?  What made you really want to use an aftermarket trigger?

GSD said: 
Quote
Most instructors I know will recommend you DO NOT modify a carry firearm beyond perhaps night sights and an extended slide/safety.
 

I'd agree with that, but mostly for reliability's sake.    Good sights, controls where/how you can reach them easily, and trigger work as necessary for reliability and control.  (In other words, a 9-pound stock trigger _should_ be worked on in this day and age, in my opinion.  There is no reason to handicap yourself with a poor trigger when good reliable triggers are available.  However, there is a limit to the amount of work that should be done on striker-fired guns before reliability starts to be affected.)

That's just me, though.

(Most guns don't NEED much in the way of modifications for anything outside of high-level competition.)
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Offline shooter

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 07:48:12 PM »
ummm. sell it and get a 1911!   8)
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Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 09:46:51 PM »
I don't know how a good attorney could not defend a reasonable modification on a firearm to make it more reliable and more accurate.  The reason for a better trigger is so that you have better control of where the bullets go.  You want to hit the aggressor, NOT anything/anyone else.  They should bring up the NYPD shootout on the sidewalk where the police were throwing lead and hitting innocents in part due to their New York triggers.

A GOOD attorney would pound those facts home so that even a non-gun person would understand why improving the trigger is the responsible thing to do.

Fly
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Offline sremmus

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 10:03:15 PM »
At first I was eyeing the fulcrum trigger and the pyramid trigger! Then I found the glocktriggers.com Travis Haley!  It claimed to be a carry trigger  but you could shoot well with it!  I was really considering this trigger.  I'm not bad with the stock trigger I just wanted a smoother trigger because I use it for target shooting.  Ive always been skeptical about after market triggers and if they would effect the safety of the Glock!  That's why I haven't done it yet!  I do practice a lot dry firing but I just wanted a little better trigger!  Thanks for the great advise but I have to ask why not to buy the skimmer!

Offline sremmus

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 10:06:02 PM »
I don't know how a good attorney could not defend a reasonable modification on a firearm to make it more reliable and more accurate.  The reason for a better trigger is so that you have better control of where the bullets go.  You want to hit the aggressor, NOT anything/anyone else.  They should bring up the NYPD shootout on the sidewalk where the police were throwing lead and hitting innocents in part due to their New York triggers.

A GOOD attorney would pound those facts home so that even a non-gun person would understand why improving the trigger is the responsible thing to do.

Fly
ummm. sell it and get a 1911!   8)
ummm. sell it and get a 1911!   8)
Can't sell it I do love it!  Though some day Im planning on a 1912!  I mean 1911!

Offline HuskerXDM

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 10:55:08 PM »
From this month's Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network journal:
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications
The master has failed more than the beginner has even tried.

Offline JTH

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 10:56:18 PM »
At first I was eyeing the fulcrum trigger and the pyramid trigger! Then I found the glocktriggers.com Travis Haley!  It claimed to be a carry trigger  but you could shoot well with it!  I was really considering this trigger.  I'm not bad with the stock trigger I just wanted a smoother trigger because I use it for target shooting.  Ive always been skeptical about after market triggers and if they would effect the safety of the Glock!  That's why I haven't done it yet!  I do practice a lot dry firing but I just wanted a little better trigger!  Thanks for the great advise but I have to ask why not to buy the skimmer!

The Skimmer does a good job of eliminating the drop safety.  As such, I don't recommend it in any way.

Effectively, the Skimmer is a minus connector, some polished parts, and a modification to the trigger bar that reduces pre-travel and severely reduces the effectiveness of the drop safety.

Their Guardian trigger is the same without the trigger bar mod.

In other words, getting a minus connector and polishing it all up will do most of what those do.  (Most, not all.)  Cost is about $135 less, however.

Don't get me wrong, though---I like glocktriggers.com.  I have two of their trigger assemblies---an Edge and a Vogel.  Quite frankly, the Vogel is a perfectly good carry trigger.  (The Edge is too, really.)  If using the Vogel for carry, and you think the trigger shouldn't be too light, you put the 5.0 firing pin spring in (which is almost  the standard weight of spring but coupled with the 3.5 connector, makes a significant difference to the pull weight) ---it stays completely reliable.

If you think that carry triggers can be light and that isn't an issue, you can put the 4.0 spring in it, and it'll feel REALLY different.  You'll want to check that for reliability with all primers it might need to set off----but chances are that it will also be completely reliable.

Quite frankly---if you haven't done anything to the gun yet, then buy a minus connector and install it, polish the trigger assembly, oil it correctly, and dryfire the heck out of it.  Total cost:  $15. 

After that, see if you need to do anything else.
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Offline sremmus

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2014, 11:24:15 PM »
The Skimmer does a good job of eliminating the drop safety.  As such, I don't recommend it in any way.

Effectively, the Skimmer is a minus connector, some polished parts, and a modification to the trigger bar that reduces pre-travel and severely reduces the effectiveness of the drop safety.

Their Guardian trigger is the same without the trigger bar mod.

In other words, getting a minus connector and polishing it all up will do most of what those do.  (Most, not all.)  Cost is about $135 less, however.

Don't get me wrong, though---I like glocktriggers.com.  I have two of their trigger assemblies---an Edge and a Vogel.  Quite frankly, the Vogel is a perfectly good carry trigger.  (The Edge is too, really.)  If using the Vogel for carry, and you think the trigger shouldn't be too light, you put the 5.0 firing pin spring in (which is almost  the standard weight of spring but coupled with the 3.5 connector, makes a significant difference to the pull weight) ---it stays completely reliable.

If you think that carry triggers can be light and that isn't an issue, you can put the 4.0 spring in it, and it'll feel REALLY different.  You'll want to check that for reliability with all primers it might need to set off----but chances are that it will also be completely reliable.

Quite frankly---if you haven't done anything to the gun yet, then buy a minus connector and install it, polish the trigger assembly, oil it correctly, and dryfire the heck out of it.  Total cost:  $15. 

After that, see if you need to do anything else.
I was looking at the Vogel first, that's when I found the skimmer what caught my eye was the carry title of the trigger and that it uses stock glock parts!  Thanks for all the great advise I really app your time!

Offline sremmus

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Re: Modify or stock?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2014, 11:25:01 PM »
From this month's Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network journal:
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications
Thank You for the info!