Things getting hot out in Nevada

[CliffD]

And I don't mean the weather.

From Maopa Valley town meeting yesterday: "They will fire the next shot heard 'round the world. We will fire the rest".

[unfy]

Amazing how much firepower the gov't deemed necessary when it started to handle a single Mormon family ... *cough*

Anyhoo, I'd like to see someone like The Judge (Nap...) make some statements on if Bundy has any legal standing or not.

[Ronvandyn]

Initially I was strongly supporting Mr. Bundy and his cause, but then I read a few more news stories on the case.  Now?  Not at all.  There is a lot more to this than is being reported in some of the more conservative blogs and newspapers.  Things like he has been in court with this for more than a decade.  He was given many chances to pay his grazing fees.  He was told in advance that the BLM was going to move his cattle for him since he refused. 

After learning more about this one and the fact that the BLM has given him far more breaks than usual, I think the guy is telling stories out of school.

[UPCrawfish]

There may be a lot more involved than 'turtles' and grazing fees and cows....
Pieces of the underlying puzzle are coming out.

It's in Nevada. 

Harry Reid is NV senator.

Harry Reid had a hand in getting the current BLM Director his job with NO land management experience - he was Reid's "Policy Adviser" for 3 years before the appointment.

Harry Reid's son is big in Nevada land acquisitions and multi million dollar development projects.

Chinese want to build massive solar panel energy station.  (where the turtles and cattle roam??)

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch

[unfy]

Yeah, he's been in court over all of this for a very long time.

The question, for me, is still whether he has any legal standing via the initial whatever.

Sure, it's pure b.s. that the gov't can come in and create a new heavy tax on what your family has been doing for 150 years... but it is what it is.

There's plenty of questions relating to the solar plant, mineral rights, etc.  The whole tortoise thing is a smoke screen.


Legal stuff not withstanding, the use of several hundred armed men to deal with a single family is a *great* way to get the common man upset no matter what the background is.

[hangarflying]

My understanding is that the Rancher doesn't have an issue about the fees per se, rather he doesn't recognize the Federal governments authority over the land. He's willing to pay the fees, just not to the Feds. Has the Federal govt always owned the land, even before the BLM took over? That's really the question I'd like to have answered.

[unfy]

My understanding is that the Rancher doesn't have an issue about the fees per se

The question begs then - why didn't he pay the taxes ?

[CliffD]

It's hard to tell what's true and what's not with this story, much like anything else that happens lately. You read that he hasn't paid fees on the land for 20 years. You then read that he paid them up until the Federal Government took possession of the land from the State and they refused his payments.

Either way, you don't send in a militarized police force to remove 908 head of cattle. What's wrong with the Sheriff, a few Deputies showing up to handle it? Instead, they moved in a force of 200 heavily armed agents. In an effort to appease the public, they set up a 20' X 20' area with snow fence and labeled it the "Free Speech Area" so the protestors had a "spot" to voice their opinions.

The BLM is estimating it will cost $3 mil to remove the cattle (to justify his $1 mil debt). $3 mil to move cattle? Hell, I'm buying a truck and trailer!

Very, very little is being reported on main stream news sites and the fringe sites are often hard to determine what is what, but I did get confirmation today that they are now using jammers to block all cell phone and wireless reception in the area. Also, the road near the ranch is blocked and they are searching all travelers and enforcing confiscation of all firearms.

It appears to be more martial law than a serving of a warrant.

I hope everyone keeps their head and no one gets hurt.

[CliffD]

The question begs then - why didn't he pay the taxes ?

Here is a statement from Mr. Bundy's daughter:

Mr. Bundy’s daughter Shiree Bundy Cox in a letter explains the feud from the family’s perspective:

“I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. The rights to the land use are called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the Bureau of Land Management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these monies against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they’re own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM and tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the endangered species card. You’ve already heard about the desert tortoise. Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now they’re desperate. It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the Constitution of the United States of America. Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle belong to him, regardless of where they are they are my father’s property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it. They think they can take them over two borders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfield Auction and sell them. All this with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are? Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”

[CliffD]

And things just got hotter. Federal Aviation Administration just closed the air space over the ranch:

 
FDC 4/1687 ZLA NV..AIRSPACE MESQUITE, NV..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS WITHIN AREA DEFINED AS 3NM RADIUS OF 364624N/1141113W (MMM71 RADIAL AT 4.3NM) SFC-3000FT AGL LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137(A)(1) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. ONLY RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER DIRECTION OF BLM ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AIRSPACE. BLM TELEPHONE 702-335-3191 IS IN CHARGE OF ON SCENE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITY. LOS ANGELES /ZLA/ ARTCC TELEPHONE 661-265-8205 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. 1404112140-1405111434

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/notam_actual_4_1687.html

[shooter]

 anyone up  for a road trip?

[shooter]

does anyone else think the feds are pushing this, so some idiot on either side will start shooting leading to a sad mess. that the gov, will then use that to start getting rid of assaut weapons?

[Lorimor]

The Federal government has long had a history of reneging and otherwise ignoring treaties. 

Which is why I just can't understand why anyone can trust the Federal government and/or give it more power.   

[CliffD]

anyone up  for a road trip?

I read that the State Militia has been enacted and several groups from various States are headed there or are already on site. Main stream is starting to pick it up now:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/11/militia-groups-come-to-aid-nevada-rancher-in-battle-with-feds/?intcmp=latestnews

CBS also had it on their news this morning.

What I can't seem to find is just how many people are there. There is nothing coming from the location, so its hard to tell just how big of a build up this has become.

[Gantry]

What's wrong with the Sheriff, a few Deputies showing up to handle it?

And therein lies the problem......let the feds do their own dirty work instead of relying on the locals.  If local LEOs across the country would just quit helping the feds do their so called "job", I believe we would see a huge reduction in fed interference in many areas.

[Hardwood83]

I'm not sure if this guy has a legitimate case or not but I am sure that I do not trust the Federal Govt nor any of their enforcement agencies. Even if the rancher is running a Meth Lab/Counterfeiting ring out there it's hard to imagine that requires HUNDREDS of armed feds with helicopters, etc. The specifics are almost immaterial as I see this as exhibit A of a gov run amok and power hungry and determined to intimidate citizens.

Randy Weaver and David Koresh were complete d-bags, that doesn't give the US Govt the right to murder them or their families. 

[SS_N_NE]

Federal Aviation Administration just closed the air space over the ranch:

Pretty much takes care of the news media helicopters. It is amazing how the BLM can evoke airspace security. Too many government enties have extensive power (and near military capacity).

 

I just can't understand why anyone can trust the Federal government and/or give it more power.

Isn't the Federal Government the entity that give the Federal Government more power?

Is this a case of due process not running it's course, government overstepping it's reasonable authority, or due process being ignored when carried out?

[CliffD]

Just saw on a live stream that the protesters have formally requested that the Federal Agents disarm and lay their weapons in front of the flag. The Sheriff announced that the BLM is pulling out. Man, tensions must be very high out there.

[Dave1215]

Fearing for their safety as armed protesters gathered in the Nevada back country, federal officials on Saturday suddenly ended a controversial effort to seize hundreds of cattle that a rancher has kept illegally on public land.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79897809/

[Gary]

Looks like the bureau of land management, blinked.

Not sure someone should not pay grazing fees, but also not sure why the feds own 99% of Nevada in the first place.  I say, open up all that public land to settler's, like it once was.    If this guy has been feeding his cattle the weeds and scrub brush on that property for 100 years, maybe he is owed 80 years of refunds, and a deed to the property. 

I am not big on something for nothing, welfare, hand outs, but this guy has a working ranch, for a century, and I would tend to trust him, over the feds.