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Author Topic: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo  (Read 5600 times)

Offline Gary

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Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« on: April 19, 2014, 03:38:37 PM »
Beau is 4 years old.  He lives in Adams county.  Or he did, till Friday. He will be 4, forever, because some responsible adult, was irresponsible, an did not properly lock away his guns and ammo.

ONE

This is what I want everyone to do, right now.  Clear your loaded guns, hidden under a curtain, under a blanket, under a mattress, in a closet, hidden in your home, apartment, business, wherever, and LOCK THAT GUN (s) (now unloaded) UP!

I am sick and tired of reading about young adults killing friends, toddlers dying, and on and on.  It has to stop!

That is number one.  Lock up your guns!  Switzerland is smart enough to figure that out, when will we learn?

You need a gun safe, appropriate to lock up your guns.  Have a concealed carry handgun, you want ready quickly while you sleep?  You may leave that magazine loaded, according to your guns owners manual, holstered, in a safe, that holds that gun, at your bed side.    Your collection of guns, needs to all be unloaded, and all the ammo, locked up in another safe.  There is no excuse for a personal collection of anything, that can get out of hand, and kill people. 

TWO

Get out your guns owners manual, and read it.  Not just the part where it tells how to shoot it, read all the safety warnings.  All of them.

Does your gun manual tell you to keep a round in the chamber?  Does your owners manual, say exactly the opposite?  Yes it more than likely does.  All owners manuals I have read, say to keep the chamber unloaded, until you are ready to fire.

I can hear it now, all the other instructors jumping on my back, telling me how dangerous that is, having a gun, that is not instantly ready to shoot.    For those people, I would say, BS.   Having a round in the chamber, in most guns, for most people, is not safe, according to most all gun manufactures, including for concealed carry.

An exception would be military, or law enforcement personnel, that are fully trained to carry with ammo in the chamber.   Many gun owners manuals give this clearance for Military and LE.   That is still dangerous, as dozens of LE's ND a round into them, presenting their firearm all across this country, every year.  This week, a police officer tried to shoot a pit bull named Precious, and put the round in his knee.  At last report, Precious is doing fine, and the officer is hospitalized.  Turns out Precious is not mean, just a barker, like all dogs are.

You have an 8 hour class from the State Patrol CHP trainer?  Is that all the training you have?  Is your training on another firearm, or maybe 30 years ago?  If you are not fully trained, with thousands of rounds fired, you have no business chambering a round 24/7, for some unseen green zombie.  Your greatest threat to your families safety, is more than likely,  YOU!   

Want to feel safe, and that is why you carry one in the chamber?  Purchase your gas at stations at 2PM, not 2am.  If you hang out in places, where you need a round chambered, 2 pound trigger pulls, and the like, you need to upgrade your environment, not your readiness level.

THREE

Read one and two, again, and again, till it effects your daily routine, and all four year olds, are allowed to become five year olds.

Offline sjwsti

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 04:15:45 PM »

Does your gun manual tell you to keep a round in the chamber?  Does your owners manual, say exactly the opposite?  Yes it more than likely does.  All owners manuals I have read, say to keep the chamber unloaded, until you are ready to fire.

I can hear it now, all the other instructors jumping on my back, telling me how dangerous that is, having a gun, that is not instantly ready to shoot.    For those people, I would say, BS.   Having a round in the chamber, in most guns, for most people, is not safe, according to most all gun manufactures, including for concealed carry.

Children should not have unsupervised access to firearms. We agree on that.

Other peoples careless and ignorant handling of firearms will never dictate how I carry or store mine. I will continue to have a fully loaded pistol in a rapid access safe in my home. I will always carry a fully loaded pistol on my person everywhere I legally can. I have had the opportunity to participate in some very realistic training and very quickly came to the conclusion that having a weapon in a condition that it cant be immediately used is BS.

Anytime you want to work this as a force on force drill with training weapons PM me. I will meet anytime, anyplace. We will video tape the results and post them right here. You can show everyone how easy it is to employ an un chambered weapon while under duress.

- Shawn
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Offline Gary

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 04:35:38 PM »
Children should not have unsupervised access to firearms. We agree on that.

Other peoples careless and ignorant handling of firearms will never dictate how I carry or store mine. I will continue to have a fully loaded pistol in a rapid access safe in my home. I will always carry a fully loaded pistol on my person everywhere I legally can. I have had the opportunity to participate in some very realistic training and very quickly came to the conclusion that having a weapon in a condition that it cant be immediately used is BS.

Anytime you want to work this as a force on force drill with training weapons PM me. I will meet anytime, anyplace. We will video tape the results and post them right here. You can show everyone how easy it is to employ an un chambered weapon while under duress.

- Shawn

Your offer to video the results are already done, and are all over the internet.  I do not wish to participate in any show of testosterone, that ends in death or injury, daily, all over our country.

My preparedness mindset, is 100%  safety, not speed.  My students are not taught to race into anything.

Here are a couple examples of people, well meaning, even highly trained, very highly trained, that got into trouble, not following simple safety rules.





If you want the musical link, here you go.  Little wild, so it is not an embedded link.






« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 04:46:00 PM by Gary »

Offline jFader

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 04:44:44 PM »
Very sad story. I had not heard about that.

I guess I haven't read much or heard an instructor recomend that you keep all guns unloaded before.

My main reason for owning firearms is home & self defense.
I have several different loaded weapons throughout my house that are locked in safes with 4 digit codes...i have children & would never consider leaving a weapon unlocked. As far as keeping them unloaded, I don't know how proficient I can become at loading shells into my 870 at 4am if my alarm system goes off.


As far as ccw, it took me a while to start carrying with a round chambered & now I don't think I would go back.
I run through brief scenarios in my head in almost every store I go into now. The one that always pops into my head is, I'm in a store/gas station & walk into a robbery...which has already happened to me long before I carried...& I fall back & don't engage the perpetrator, now without a round chambered I either have a weapon that isn't ready or I have to chamber a round & draw attention to myself tobe ready to defend myself...

The part about going to get gas during the daytime sounds good...except the gas station near my house has been robbed twice during the daytime so far in 2014 & the robbery I witnessed was at 10am on a weekday. If I thought I could avoid serious crime by not going out late I would have no need for a concealed handgun permit.

I am relatively new to owning firearms for self defense, I just can't imagine locking my guns in a good quality secure safe & then putting every bit of ammo in a locked safe elsewhere...for me that would defeat the entire purpose of being ready & capable to defend myself & my family.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 04:51:49 PM »
This thread will be contested by many firearm instructors.  I grant that.  My main concern, is safety.  I feel some people are more afraid of unreal possibilities, to the point, they endanger themselves by going beyond what is safe for them, and their families.

I am almost afraid to read the news, for fear, of the next ND death in our community. 

Offline FarmerRick

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 05:48:54 PM »
An unloaded gun is about as valuable in a self-defense situation as a brick.

My children do not have access to my loaded self-defense handguns without my knowledge and supervision.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 06:54:55 PM »
We do not know exactly what happened.  Family members were present and it was "apparently" accidental. 

I talked to the Sheriff as late as 5 P.M. Friday and he had no specifics then either.

We should avoid knee jerk reactions.

But I can tell you I raised two boys to be grown men and never once had my guns locked away, but I didn't keep them loaded and lying around either.  Nor did we get them out and wave them around in the house.  They were taught safety and respect. 

If I lock up all my guns I may as well not have any.
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Offline shooter

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 07:42:03 PM »
I don't think my grandkids will mess with my guns, they have there own.just like me, when they hit 10 years old, they got there first gun, its in there closet, I checked it a lot at first to see if it was moved, It hasn't been, unless I tell them to go get it so we can shoot in the yard,
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Offline sjwsti

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 08:12:54 PM »
Your offer to video the results are already done, and are all over the internet.  I do not wish to participate in any show of testosterone, that ends in death or injury, daily, all over our country.

My preparedness mindset, is 100%  safety, not speed.  My students are not taught to race into anything.

Here are a couple examples of people, well meaning, even highly trained, very highly trained, that got into trouble, not following simple safety rules.

Im not sure what videos of idiots having NDs proves other than sometimes people ignore the basic rules for handling a gun safely. Carelessness, complacency, call it what you will but these things happen when dealing with human beings. Statistically deaths by accidental discharge of a firearm are rare. Of course one is too many and only though education and constant vigilance can we prevent these tragedies from occurring.

When you advocate un chambered carry to your students do you express only the advantages? Or do you go into detail about the disadvantages as well and allow them to make an informed decision as to how they will carry? Have you ever personally experienced the disadvantages in training or even real life? If not, you should. Otherwise how are you truly informed on the topic?

 - Shawn


« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 02:37:52 AM by sjwsti »
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 09:41:45 PM »
These deaths while tragic are blown out of proportion by a media pushing a agenda.

Around 40,000 deaths a year in automobile wreaks, going to quit driving?

How about 440,000 deaths last year chalked up to medical mistakes. I would definitely avoid doctors.

As for me I'll keep carrying with one in the pipe and keep a loaded gun by the bed side.


I do believe in gun safes as I own several, but they will never be a substitute for education and training.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 10:13:22 PM by farmerbob »
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Offline NENick

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2014, 10:15:52 PM »
These deaths while tragic are blown out of proportion by a media pushing a agenda.

Around 40,000 deaths a year in automobile wreaks, going to quit driving?

How about 440,000 deaths last year chalked up to medical mistakes. I would definitely avoid doctors.

As for me I'll keep carrying with one in the pipe and keep a loaded gun by the bed side.


I do believe in gun safes as I own several, but they will never be a substitute for education and training.
+1

Offline shooter

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 10:33:07 PM »
 somewhere I saw a article about how many people die on stairs every year. don't remember how many but sure was a lot more than guns,
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Offline Kodiak

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 07:32:23 PM »
I believe in keeping guns locked. I also believe that a gun without a round in the chamber is an unloaded weapon. I keep my pistol in a small gun vault in my room. Why? Bc while I accept that the act of accessing my gun will be slowed compared to if it was laying on the night stand, I have done the risk/reward assessment and have sided with safety concerned with grubby little kid mitts getting to it over safety concerning speedier access(I agree that it's more likely the kidmates will gain entry than an evil doer.) But I'm not going to further slow down access by having it unchambered. Heaven forbid in a stressful moment forget to chamber(after all, it's been ingrained in me that every weapon is loaded, not that every weapon is waiting to be chambered) a secure gun is a secure gun just as an unsecured gun is an unsecured gun. If it's locked, that chambered round won't magically fire and if it's unsecured with an empty pipe and a kid gets a hold of it, there is still a great danger

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 10:17:59 AM »
I also believe that a gun without a round in the chamber is an unloaded weapon.

I take exception to this statement.  However, the rest of your post seems to contradict this one sentence.   

if it's unsecured with an empty pipe and a kid gets a hold of it, there is still a great danger

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Offline landon410

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 11:15:45 AM »
OP is almost like that city law in somewhere in the great commie east coast that all firearms no matter what must be locked in a box/safe/compartment what have you

its really a poorly thought out idea ala safe act

someone breaks into my house, ok I have a gun case 2 levels underneath me, I have to sneak down a flght a stairs, through my living room down another flight of stairs unlock my gun case without the lights on or being heard and my family is all still upstairs unprotected.

I keep a handgun with arms reach while laying in bed.
I'm planning on building a way to mount either a shot gun or my AR inside my  bedroom closet

don't like being unarmed, because thats what you are if you dont have a loaded gun available to you.
an unloaded shotgun is just an odd shaped bat.
an unloaded handgun locked in a safe next to my bed when someone is walking down my hallway to my room or my childs room is no more protection than the police which are 5 minutes away when the bad guy is 30 seconds away

Offline Mudinyeri

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 01:22:33 PM »
Your offer to video the results are already done, and are all over the internet. 

I've seen both of those videos dozens of times (either watched or linked).  Neither has anything to do with a "highly-trained" individual.  The cop received some initial training and then, based on averages, spent four hours a year "qualifying" with his duty weapon.  Tex, the vlogger, is simply an idiot.

There are times when both speed and safety are necessary and both can live harmoniously.  When stupidity or hubris (or both) are mixed with speed and a lack of safety bad things happen.

Offline DenmanShooter

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 08:04:59 PM »
I knew there would be a lot more to this story.

Not an accident.  Intentionally shot by his older brother.   

A lot more going on here than a gun safe can fix...

http://www.khastv.com/story/juvenile-petition-filed-against-boy-in-death-of-brother-20140424
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Offline Tacticoolio

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 11:03:59 PM »
I knew there would be a lot more to this story.

Not an accident.  Intentionally shot by his older brother.   

A lot more going on here than a gun safe can fix...

http://www.khastv.com/story/juvenile-petition-filed-against-boy-in-death-of-brother-20140424
Wouldn't a gun safe have helped him make a better decision?  Still a senseless act that would have been stopped by a gun safe or trigger lock on an unloaded gun. No way to bypass a security feature if there's malicious intent.
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Offline Gary

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 12:40:36 AM »
Nine year olds, with intent of shooting 4 year olds.   

There is a scene in No Country For Old Men, where Tommy Lee Jones is talking to another sheriff, and the two are remarking on how the fabric in society, had gotten so bad. 

" Once you quit hearing Sir & Mam, the rest is soon to follow "

The young people of today, have no respect for elders, often times.  TV, video games, and there is no respect instilled into anyone anymore. 

The problem with todays young people, does not give a pass, on the adults in the home, that did not properly secure that .22 rifle, in that home.

Offline Gary

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Re: Gun Safety & The Importance Of Locking Up Your Guns & Ammo
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 12:55:45 AM »
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that more than 1.7 million children live in homes with loaded and unlocked guns.

On average, 500 kids are shot by themselves, or other children, every year, in this country.

Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2009/09/gun_accidents_kill_500_kids_each_year.php#ixzz2zsIACSjs