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Author Topic: In today's Urinal Star.....  (Read 8847 times)

Offline bkoenig

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2014, 04:21:33 PM »
Maybe it really is all about fashion.  As long as your firearm doesn't clash with your outfit, it's OK to carry openly.  Otherwise, conceal that hog leg so I don't have to see your fashion faux pas.


Life is too short to carry an ugly gun.  That's why I have CZ's and not Glocks.











 ;D





Offline RedDot

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2014, 07:54:18 PM »
Life is too short to carry an ugly gun.  That's why I have CZ's and not Glocks.








 ;D






Easy there... statements like that will "disturb the peace" of Glock-lovers. Then when they cry foul, out will come the 1911 crowd to ridicule them further. There will be mass hysteria on the thread. Total Lord of the Flies chaos which will draw out SFG to profess his love for the .357Sig round! :o

On second thought...go for it. :P

Offline Dan W

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2014, 08:40:21 PM »
Glocks are to be heard, not seen   :kiss:
Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
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Offline JTH

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2014, 09:20:36 PM »
Life is too short to carry an ugly gun.  That's why I have CZ's and not Glocks.

You know you'd open carry this....

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Offline ILoveCats

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2014, 10:09:18 PM »
Well, you said they had assumed validly, so that wording made me think you thought there was something valid in what they said.

I’m probably not clear with that.  When I say “valid” I don’t necessarily mean “sound” (in the deductive argument sequence of validity + truth = soundness.)  Skimming through as many of the LJS comments as I can without getting nauseous, I see a lot of arguments that aren’t invalid (though they may be based on untrue premises and therefore be unsound.)  People are reacting to this story and saying, “Any 4 year old can pull that idiots gun from his back while he rocks his baby,” and, “Anyone else notice how easy it would be to take the guys piece who is holding the baby?”  Are those statements true, even if inartfully said?  Is GreyGeek’s theory posted here about the importance of “surprise” similarly true?  Maybe.  I don’t know.  The tactics of OC are an interesting topic but it wasn’t my main point.

My point is more along the lines of having an effective PR strategy.  We’ve been surrounded by OC stories lately where the OCer is more focused on conveying a political fashion statement than conveying any purpose.  In fact, I can’t think of any reasons why one would open carry other than (1) you believe it’s a tactically better way to carry, (2) it’s more practical/comfortable, or (3) to take a statement. This event seems to be #3; the guy even says he likes feeling like “a walking billboard” when he’s OCing.  These people didn’t all OC to the restaurant because they thought it was going to be invaded by Boko Haram coming to kidnap their daughters.  It was an (admittedly fun and harmless) gathering with a political overtone (to which they themselves perhaps invited the media, to make even more of a statement???) And I admit it’s nowhere near as blatant in-your-face as the youtube videos of the guys carrying rifles down the street with a camera specifically to film their interaction with the police, or other controversial stories related here in the last year.  You’re absolutely right about that and I’m wrong to paint them all with a big, broad brush.

I’m not saying any of this should be illegal.  I’m not saying OC bothers me personally.  I might do it someday if needed for reasons #1 or 2 I mentioned above.  If I see some guy out fishing in a remote area with his SP101 on his hip, or a young lady jogging in town with her Ruger LCP on her hip, that’s great.  If I walk into a restaurant with a big OC confabulation going on, I don’t care at all. What I think may be working to our detriment is the trend where people are doing it not for any immediate defensive purposes, but also without any clear PR strategy.  In a “perception is reality” world it doesn’t matter whether Round the Bend is big or small, or the guy does or doesn’t always carry a baby around, or whatever else LJS readers infer from one photo. What matters is what perception we created.

There are so many intelligent and purposeful things that we could be saying about firearm ownership. The article from the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy that someone recently posted here (http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf) was absolutely a goldmine of great arguments and facts that debunk the idea that gun ownership has a causal relationship with murder, suicide and violence, and it made the case that there’s most likely an inverse causal relationship.  Those would be great points to make, but 95% of the time when someone puts a camera or mic in front of an OCer’s face, we hear them say, “I’m doin’ it cuz I can,” which sounds to me very “in your face”.   It also sounds like the fastest way to rally the anti-gun crowd to pass anti-OC laws, and push ambivalent political moderates toward the left side of the issue.  I’ll be careful here because I don’t want to slip back into painting this particular group with a broad brush, but I’m leery and unconvinced of the efficacy of OC gatherings.  I don’t know that they win any converts from the anti-gun crowd, and don’t know that they impress anyone other than our own selves.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:05:21 PM by feralcatkillr »
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2014, 04:00:35 PM »
You know you'd open carry this....


Not enough pink. 

Offline unfy

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2014, 04:21:55 PM »
See, I was going to stay out of all the butt hurt in this thread since it has gotten way the intercourse off topic... but.... I really had to throw two cents in about something.

Quote
cuz i can

Is a perfectly fine response.

Why are you reading that holy book?

Why are you walking down THIS street?

Why are you crossing the state line?

Or to be topical:

Why are you wearing THAT t-shirt ?
-- see NRA shirt
-- see US flag shirt

"Cuz I Can" is perfectly fine. Exercising a right does not have to have justification.



The attitude these confrontational folks don't help, I'll admit.  Ya can make points without being a douchebag.



Would it have been beneficial if the "cuz i can" d00dz were able to cite some statistics and other knowledgeable facts and stuff - prolly.  But that was their choice.  Ya can go about getting in similar situations yourself and espousing the statistics and talking points YOU want to make YOURSELF, btw :)
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline HuskerXDM

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2014, 06:38:26 PM »
Whoever runs the Nebraska Open Carry, Facebook page contacted Sen. Coash, who in turn contact Chief Peshong.  They have posted the response on their Facebook page.  If you're on Facebook, check it out:
https://www.facebook.com/neopencarry?hc_location=timeline

If they give me permission I'll copy/paste it here, or hopefully they are also on the forum and will do so themselves.
The master has failed more than the beginner has even tried.

Offline Dan W

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 07:35:17 PM »
It gets to the point at the end of  David's (Coash aide) response

Quote
There would have to be some associated behavior with the person’s actions that starts alarming or putting people in fear to be issued a disturbing the peace citation.
Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline unfy

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2014, 09:13:33 PM »
http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/Published/115084.p.pdf

The possessing a firearm isn't reasonable suspicion - thus ... prolly hard to argue disturbing the peace etc
hoppe's #9 is not the end all be all woman catching pheramone people make it out to be ... cause i smell of it 2 or 3 times a week but remain single  >:D

Offline NE Bull

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Offline Ghost

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2014, 08:56:58 AM »
I'll go elsewhere to eat then.  I wasn't all that fond of Chipotle's menu anyway.

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Offline zofoman

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2014, 09:18:58 AM »
I'll go elsewhere to eat then.  I wasn't all that fond of Chipotle's menu anyway.

Ghost

Same here.
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Offline whatsit

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2014, 12:20:14 PM »
Qdoba is better. However, add this to the growing list of businesses that don't want anything to do with the debate, but are forced into it because of in-your-face, pro-gun tactics that clearly have the opposite effect. (Starbucks is another recent one).
They said in their statement that the issue is not central to their business and want to stay out of it.
Until I see a legal posting on a chipotle door, my opinion is that they are remaining neutral -- as are hundreds of other places that I visit.

Offline Mntnman

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2014, 01:29:07 PM »
Qdoba is better. However, add this to the growing list of businesses that don't want anything to do with the debate, but are forced into it because of in-your-face, pro-gun tactics that clearly have the opposite effect.

That is only your opinion. Where would we be if most folks already hadn't been shamed out of open carry. I think that if all pro2A supporters would open carry some of the time, we wouldn't even have to have this debate. We are just dealing with the opposition already having a head start.



Offline Mntnman

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2014, 01:31:37 PM »
I open carry just so carrying doesn't become something we lose just because nobody does it, then when someone does, people freak because they aren't used to it.

Offline whatsit

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2014, 02:38:19 PM »
You're right -- it's my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, stop reading now.  :laugh:

I fully support the right to open carry. I don't care what form it takes -- you have the right to bear arms. The guys at the Chipotle in TX certainly had every right to open carry their rifles and shotguns.

My point was: it is not a good idea.
Why: because they aren't going to change anyone's mind in our favor -- on the contrary, they may (and in this case, they did) turn people against us.

We are in a fight for hearts and minds. I agree with those that say things like, "your fear of guns doesn't nullify my right." That is true. However, if we exercise our right in a way that turns people against us, we are going to loose this fight.

Open carry your handgun. More power to you. I'm glad you're here and that you're taking responsibility for your own protection. The only part of open carry I disagree with is the idea that it will change hearts and minds in our favor.

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2014, 04:09:54 PM »
The "Open Carry" strategy is, IMO, flawed on two levels:
1st, it lets the bad guys know who is armed and who to target first in the commission of a crime.

2nd, it will work the opposite of what is intended by alarming even more people who are already too fearful of people with visible guns, which they equate to thugs, psychotics or media's boogy-man; "gun nuts".   We have an example of that in "The Cloward–Piven strategy" which, according to wikipedia,  is a political strategy outlined in 1966 by American sociologists and political activists Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven that called for overloading the U.S. public welfare system in order to precipitate a crisis that would lead to a replacement of the welfare system with a national system of "a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty".   

By displaying guns in public the effect is  the exact opposite of what is desired.  We are seeing the Cloward-Plven strategy being employed right now as we see that the number of workers "participating" have dropped to 63% of the total work force available, with the number of "disabled" climbing to over 10,000,000 workers and family members.  That means that 37% are not "participating", i.e., holding a job, and Obama has released all detained illegal aliens and still fails to protect our borders.  The reason is obvious -- crash the economy to justify installing a Socialist State with command and control from the top -- by "executive orders".   IF I were an anti-gun fanatic I'd push pro-2A people to display guns in public and push them into peoples faces as often as possible, especially "assault" rifles, so that they could be vilified by an all too willing media which is also pushing against the 2A and the Constitution in general.

Two years ago I gave a speech on the steps of our capital in which I stated that I never thought that in my entire life time I would feel the need to rise in defense of the 2nd Amendment, or the Constitution.   I mentioned the time I took a bus 3 miles to down town Denver, walked into the Dave Cook sporting goods store, plunked down $150 and took the bus back home carrying two M1 Garands, which had just been surplussed (circa 1957). Nobody cared that a 16 year old kid who looked 13 or 14 was carrying around two high powered military rifles on public transporation.   I also said that many pickup trucks had gun racks in them and there were rifles hanging on many of those gun racks.  There were so many people, perhaps a majority,  carrying small pistols in their pockets and purses that none thought anything about it.  You expected that anyone you happened to meet would probably be armed.

That was then.  This is now.    People have been conditioned by the Marxist media to be fearful of firearms of any kind, and to believe that they are not needed because the "State" will protect them, even though the Supreme Court has ruled more than once that it is NOT the purpose of the police to defend any particular person, even if they know that that individual has or is being threatened  with death.   The fact that the states with the most strict gun regulation are also those with the greatest gun violence because thugs and psychotics know that they face an unarmed victim does not register with those fearful citizens because the media does NOT report the uses of firearms to protect citizens unless they can bend that story to their own agenda.   Therefore, IMO, folks who brandish weapons openly in public places "because they can" are doing more damage to the 2A than good.

On September 9th the court in York will hold a sentencing hearing for a murderer I helped convict in 1987 and again in 1997.  In the second trial he was evaluated by two psychiatrists as permanently psychotic and a danger to the community and should never be released.  The jury agreed and found him guilty of 1st degree murder.  He was sentenced to life in prison with no parole.  He was 14 when he committed the murder of his younger sister, whom he sexually assaulted after he shot her, and he was 24 when he was given the life sentence at the second trial.  I recently read that at the time of the murder he had six other assault cases pending in court.    Five liberal groups have been campaigning for several years to get the sentences of murderers who committed their crimes as juveniles, and were sentenced to life in prison,  pardoned or commuted.   That's the main reason why I obtained a CHP.   It would be life threatening to me and my wife if such unnecessary parades of firearms resulted in a flood of businesses putting up no-gun signs to the point that carrying a concealed weapon would be problematic if not impractical.  Or worse, instead of relaxing unconstitutional restrictions on possession and carrying of firearms, such activities creates justifications for adding to restrictions.
 

Offline Mntnman

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2014, 05:00:24 PM »
IMO, if a criminal sees someone with a firearm, he will decide to do bad somewhere else. Most are wusses, just like those who commit mass shootings in posted victim zones. Also, even when you open carry, most people will not even notice.

There are going to be some offended people along the way. When you say it hurts our cause, it does, temporarily. In the long run, it will be a victory. Everyone that is comfortable with carrying should do so openly at times so that it doesn't get lost for lack of participation. If people get used to seeing guns, they won't be able to deny us that right just because some pansy-arsed hippies get skeered.

Offline Lorimor

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Re: In today's Urinal Star.....
« Reply #59 on: May 22, 2014, 03:59:17 AM »
The Chipotle Boys are real knuckleheads.  It's one thing to stroll into the store with a Glock on your belt and quite another to be sportin' an AR. 

If I see someone publicly totin' an AR or other long gun, I'm going to Condition Orange baby.  I don't know if he, she, they have bad intent or are simply attention whores. 

Boneheads. 
"It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed." – Rory Miller