Author Topic: Can Neb. get a gun law passed like Georgia did? (Read 2831 times)

grumpy old man · « **on:** July 04, 2014, 10:37:55 AM »

Is there any bill or proposed legislation in the pipeline to get Nebraska gun laws to look like Georgia's?

Would a petition help? Would a day at the legislature showing our support of such a bill help?

I am tired of feeling like a criminal because I carry a weapon to protect my family, myself, and anyone around me. Constitutional Carry should not only be the law of the state but the land. What steps are in place to make sure Nebraska is going to get this done?

I saw the FACL (Foundation for Applied Conservative Leadership) puts on classes to help organizations such as NFOA to get friendly gun laws passed.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2014, 11:00:35 AM »

Constitutional carry has been the law in Nebraska since 1988. The problem is no one in power will recognize it.

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2014, 04:27:24 PM »

I would be interested in seeing the NE carry law. Could you suggest a search to find it?

I too have a bad feeling about my CHP. To realize my rights, I had to pay for a class,travel a distance to the NSP, prove citizenship,provide other ID, get fingerprinted, pay a fine and wait several weeks. All of which feels more like something that would happen to a criminal than a law abiding individual. All the while knowing criminals do not suffer following rules. And knowing individuals who do not follow the law and therefore extend their right to self-defense past what I can legally and therefore consciously achieve. The legal obstacles continue to grow daily.

Everyone concerns over registration. How is CHP any different? In some places this information allows LE to enter your house without announcing themselves. Even though the law prevents sharing who holds permits, that info has already be given to the DMV for LE use. That alone demonstrates how people wrtting law do no have to follow the law.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2014, 05:05:29 PM »

Be Glad to,

http://nebraskanews.blogspot.com/2005/05/state-vermont-v-rosenthal-v-nebraska.html

http://nebraskanews.blogspot.com/2004/08/truth-about-concealed-carry-in.html

Though it has been years, I have had the fortunate opportunity to talk with a number of the individuals that created and pushed to get IM # 403 on the general ballot that was voted in the affirmative by the population at the ballot box.

One of the biggest reasons besides getting RKBA language in the Constitution was to make Nebraska a Constitutional carry state.

Does it say anywhere that You do not need a permit to carry concealed? No!

What it does say is "... the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof."

What it does is forbid the state and its political subdivisions from denying and infringing the Nebraska citizens Right to keep and bear arms.

The language the creators of IM #403 used was drawn from the statutes that the Vermont Supreme Court relied on that established the original Constitutional Carry in the U.S.

Hope this helps.

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2014, 07:23:36 PM »

Thank you for taking the time to provide that information.

jFader · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2014, 10:53:40 PM »

gunscribe....i enjoy reading your articles on nebraska laws! there isnt much out there on the web for someone trying to understand the previous laws & culture at the time...

in your opinion, what would have to happen for our lawmakers to accept the wording of 403 & the nebraska constituion as the law of the land?

i realize that no matter what they are going to have some restrictions upheld in court....but it seems to me that ALL of the Additional restrictions & ordinances that are enforced in Omaha & Lincoln clearly violate the nebraska constitution!

am i too optimistic to imagine that we are "a court case" away from constitutional carry in nebraska?

in theory.....a law abiding citizen is ticketed for carrying concealed without permit OR not having registered a handgun in the city limits of Omaha....then say they lose their case in Douglas County Court & appeal the decision & it makes it to the Neb Supreme Court & they win!

Could a favorable decision/review be enough to bring us from a state with mediocre gun laws to a top tier gun rights state with constitutional carry??

Or am i just dayDreaming?

SS_N_NE · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2014, 11:17:29 PM »

I also struggle with how Constitution (State in this case) is ignored by powers.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2014, 11:33:48 PM »

A couple of things J,

When an IM or legislative bill is voted or signed into law the true meaning is not know until case law is established. (What ever a judge or jury decides)

It may be a recently enacted law and the intent of the sponsor's well documented in the media and a judge with an anti opinion will rule the actual law passed means something else.

The limited case law available does support the convention, by the creators of IM #403, that Nebraska is a Constitutional Carry State, in that neither the state nor its political subdivisions may exercise police power over a power they have not been given.

Further until IM #403 there had been no power granted by the people to regulate firearm and with IM #403 the people denied the state the power to regulate firearms.

Omaha never had, even under Home Rule Authority, to enact their open carry permit scheme.

Lincoln never had, even under home Rule Authority, to enact their handgun registration scheme.

That did not stop Brad Ashford from pushing the Pistol Purchase Permit two years later.

The arrogance against the will of the people is phenomenal and they will continue to violate their oath of office until voted out or slapped down by the state supreme court.

Sadly the solution to forcing those in service to We the People is money, having a person that has been cited for an offence and a judge that is mindful of his responsibilities to the people he/she serves.

The other alternative is to vote into office those who understand that they serve the will of the people and not the other way around.

So in answer to your question, yes, if it is pushed it will take money and ultimately be decided by the supreme court.

jFader · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2014, 11:44:01 PM »

https://dspace.creighton.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10504/39819/28_23CreightonLRev489%281989-1990%29.pdf?sequence=1

i just got done reading through this....it provided a lot of insight on initiative 403, the Nebraska constitution, the Nebraska Supreme Court rulings, & other states Constitutions & Court Cases...

Its a worthwhile read if any of the above interest you.

it seems that the very few challenges to Nebraska's constitutional amendment for the right to bear arms were brought by criminals attempting to circumvent the law rather than actually challenge it....one case was a felon in possesion....another was a sawed off shotgun....& i believe there was a third im forgetting right now.

a very interesting point in this law school review of initiative 403 was when it talked about the Nebraska Attorney General endorsing legislation to enact a 7 day waiting period to purchase firearms....he noted that it would hold up to a state constitutional challenge BUT he thought that initiative 403 should be repealed to uphold the new law....WOW....they dont mention the attorney general by name but based on the date of this article, i am assuming it was Robert M. Spire, a republican who served from 85-91...

Another interesting take from the article was the unwillingness of the Neb Supreme Court to look at other states decisions while making their own.....which i would think would favor gun rights if all they have to look at is the text of the Nebraska Constitution!

SOMEONE GET ALAN GOTTLIEB & ALAN GURA ON THE PHONE ASAP!!! we just need a willing/qualified participant whose rights have been infringed & we got ourselves a winnable case!

Gunscribe · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2014, 11:53:30 PM »

SS, basically because they are seldom or never challenged. Arrogance is power. I wrote a paper years ago on some of the then current and proposed ordinances on the books in Lincoln.

I presented it to several of the sitting city council members. They in turn asked then city attorney Dana Roper for an opinion. To my knowledge he never offered an opinion. (What does that tell you.)

The council voted to enact the proposed ordinances anyway knowing that it was unlikely that anyone with money would ever challenge them.

The absolute best thing we can do is elect those candidates that believe they answer to the people. Once they are sworn into office they constantly need to be reminded of their campaign promises and that if they don't they can be fired as easily as they were hired.

Yes, that means attending and speaking up at meetings, hearings and meet and greets. There are those in the NFOA that are willing to do that but they need the support of the membership. Even if you just show up to observe the powers that be will recognize that there are 10, 20, 50, 100 voting NFOA members in the room in support of the two or three that are willing to speak.

That is power.

They ignore their oath of office because most of the time there is no serious challenge to obey it.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2014, 12:15:48 AM »

Quote from: jFade on July 05, 2014, 11:44:01 PM

it seems that the very few challenges to Nebraska's constitutional amendment for the right to bear arms were brought by criminals attempting to circumvent the law rather than actually challenge it....one case was a felon in possesion....another was a sawed off shotgun....& i believe there was a third im forgetting right now.

Correct, I addressed some of those cases in my dissertation.

Interestingly enough I read an opinion by Jon Bruening a number of years ago (memory faded as to which one) where in the text of which it appeared that he was quoting from some of my writings. As I recall he made several points that were worded suspiciously like what I had written. It was a pro-gun opinion by the way.

I have discussed this at length with both Alan's on a number of occasions. The big problem is finding a clean plaintiff. There is also the issue of importance. It is very important to us yes, but in their opinion, (and probably rightfully so) there are more important and more quickly winnable cases. SAF and The NFOA just won a Nebraska case in Federal court so they are not ignoring Nebraska.

Remember a Federal case won in another state benefits Nebraska when the same case or similar comes up.

jFader · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2014, 12:31:51 AM »

yes, i believe your article was where i got most of the details on the court cases where they attempted to invoke the Neb. Constitution....Sometimes i read so much my brain starts to mash it all together!

i have a question that im not clear on.....what group or who was responsible for getting initiative 403 on the ballot & passed?? It sure seems like it would have taken a heck of an effort to get it on the ballot to begin with, then was there much advertising support for it OR did the voters just have more common sense back on 11-8-88??

As far as the Attorney General is concerned.....doesn't he have the power to tell Omaha for example that their law is in violation of a state law? I was thinking that he had done that with the OPD still wanting CHP holders to register their weapons???

As always I appreciate your responses & time invested..... I only ask a lot of ?s so that i can truly learn & hopefully make a difference in the fight for our rights!!!

Gunscribe · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:02:17 AM »

The process: create the wording for an amendment incorporate into a petition and gather enough signatures to get it on the ballot.

I was not in Nebraska at that time. Some of the individuals that I remember talking to about it were Larry Ball, Gene Tyson and the Original (??) owner of the in-door shooting range off of 48th (behind the bread store) in Lincoln. His name might have been Kevin (??) There was also a woman, but I do not remember her name.

I don't believe there was an official group or club that spearheaded it. I was given the impression that it was done by a number of like minded people that felt strongly enough to get out and get the signatures. Kind of like the early years of the NFOA and getting CCW passed.

Gunscribe · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2014, 01:07:21 AM »

Attorney General opinions are guidance and due not hold the weight of the law. They are only his or her opinion on what the court is likely to decide if the issue goes before the bench..

No one is bound by an opinion and other governmental organizations can and do tell the AG to pound sand.

jFader · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2014, 09:43:50 AM »

Cool...thanks for the info....

In my online research I found a article discussing the NRAs involvement in Nebraska. Apparently the NRA contributed $22,733 relating to initiative 403.

http://www.nadc.nebraska.gov/AdvisoryOpinions/OPINION%20138.htm

Interesting article detailing some of the activities of the NRA in Nebraska in the late 80s & 90s....

ILoveCats · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2014, 10:36:44 AM »

Well, gathering signatures to get it on the ballot would be the only way to make changes until Mr. Chambers runs up against his term limits again, right?

Have you all seen this nationwide Gallup poll? http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx#4. It's a pretty interesting measure of the country's thoughts on firearms and is fairly current. There is a ton of data to be analyzed in here, and many indications that are very positive in terms of gun rights. I believe the last couple years has really been a gun-buying renaissance in terms of new shooters joining the sport or buying for personal defense. The buying frenzy was not simply existing owners buying more.

One interesting anomaly though is the question of, do you own a gun. That one dipped down with a few more people saying no, when so many of the other answers trended in a conflicting direction. I believe that's simply the result of people being afraid to say yes, fearing confiscatory legislation.

jFader · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2014, 10:46:54 AM »

There sure is a lot of interesting info in there....the one that shocked me the most was the very high percentage of people that favored a handgun ban in the past, there were years over 50%...

I would agree with you that a lot of people wouldn't answer truthfully & a quite a few gun owners I know wouldn't even bother to answer a survey at all....

I know that I wanted to tell my Dr. to eff off when he asked me about FireArms ownership at my last physical....of course he would be one of the first to know if I was on depression medication or similar that could restrict my rights.

TwoSwords · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2014, 01:05:20 PM »

I'll post this again, take this to your Senators and ask: Why no massive problems in KS? And look at all the rights they have. Border state. Very similar.

http://www.neccw.com/docs/KS_vs_NE.pdf

KS is effectively a carry everywhere state, but without all the press GA received. Put in the metal detectors in city hall or zip it on NO CCW in there.

Sebilus vetoed CCW until they voted out enough senators out to override the veto.

That is about the only option, get them voted out, and start picking away at the list in the PDF.

Don't try to do it all at once, it will never happen. There are to many RINO's in the Unicameral. As conservative as Nebraska is the UNICAM is not very.

grumpy old man · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2014, 01:54:21 PM »

Thanks TwoSwords. That is short & to the point and wonderful to have!

Dan W · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2014, 05:12:36 PM »

We can pass anything we want with 33 votes if we can move it out of the Judiciary committee.

How many here, asking if it is possible, have volunteered to help Andy Allen with the work load at NFOA-PAF?

*****in' about stuff on the interwebz is not the same as actually doing the groundwork that builds a more 2A friendly Judiciary Committee.

Andy needs a lot of help to get things accomplished. Contact him today and volunteer your time and your money. The November election push is starting right now!

http://www.nfoapaf.org/