Blew Up an XDM40 Today

[Wymore Wrangler]

I'll echo all the sentiments that your okay!!!!

[GreyGeek]

I have jonm's thirst for knowledge.  From what I have read (which is very little), there is no known reason for this phenomenon.  Some say it only occurs with slow burning powders with a high case volume to powder volume ratio.  Though I've also read that ammunition manufacturers have not been able to reproduce it.  Seems to be somewhat debated, though I'm not saying it isn't possible.

Fly

Detonation or Secondary Explosion Effects?

The knee jerk reaction is "double charge".   
There were ten cartridges. The first cartridge shot  exploded.  The rest of the reloads had the powder charge the loader claimed he used.  Bullets and primers in the remaining rounds were the same.   Cases looked good.  AOLs were the same on the remaining cartridges.   IIRC, I calculated the charge volume to be only about 1/4th the volume of the cartridge, taking into account the part of the volume taken up by  the bullet in the casing.  I don't think anyone spiked it with granulated TNT...

http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 12:22:51
From: One Horse clochmul@chem.duke.edu
Subject: Re: Detonations

This is an important thread because the more people try to use popcorn poppers { light loads} the more chance there is for more destructive events. Far be it for me to argue with FBI Ballistics but as a Ph.D. chemist with more than the average knowledge of explosives and such:

1. There are studies that show that essentially all the powder in a typical pistol load combusts before the bullet leaps the gap into the forcing cone.

2. The expansion that occurs is the expansion of the gases produced in the combustion not the expansion of the powder.

The best argument for why detonation occurs rather than the simple burning and slow burning rate of smokeless propellant is that very light loads expose a larger surface to the primer jet, By analogy, granary explosions occur when finely divided dust is suspended in air-the effect is a detonation. If you have never seen a granary but saw "Outbreak", the sterilizing bomb in the beginning of the movie is a fuel aerosol bomb { once called Daisy Cutter}. The rapid combustion/explosion/detonation is the result of the high surface area of the aerosol fuel droplets {total area of all the droplets}. The effect is dramatic and large landing zones for helos can be created where no stumps are left but no crater is formed. The analogy is to a the high surface area of a flake or ball powder expose to ignition if it is spread as a thin layer over an entire case length. More powder gets burning sooner and ....

One way to make a lab experiment fail is to load and keep the cartridges bullet up and then load so as to not spread the light charge over the length of the case? If the theory is correct, that is. There is a pertinent article in the last issue of The Cast Bullet - the Cast Bullet Association journal.

[newfalguy101]

Pic of the handgun after the blow up is posted earlier in this thread.

Regarding the cartridge case:  Parts of it went in my face.  And then were picked out.  Other pieces were spread around the firing line by the blast.  I did find a remnant on the ground that could have been the culprit, but not sure.  Front part of the case was blown off at an angle.  The base appeared to have been scraped very hard across the slide face, scarfing off part of the metal off into a flashing.

Your description ( in my mind anyway ) seems to support my theory that you experienced an out of battery detonation.

I neglected to mention that I am glad you weren't hurt.

[SemperFiGuy]

Your description ( in my mind anyway ) seems to support my theory that you experienced an out of battery detonation.
I neglected to mention that I am glad you weren't hurt..

Second Thing First:  Once again, I sincerely appreciate all the solicitous comments received here in regard to my personal safety.

Back to First Thing:  I'd really like to believe that this event resulted from an out-of-battery detonation (rather than from a powder overcharge) because my reloading practices are about as meticulous as can be carried out on a single-stage press setup.   Nevertheless, it happened.

I'll be back on the shooting range again soon.   And most definitely do not want a repeat of this experience.   Probably couldn't bring myself to mention it to anyone, especially this Forum.
[/size]
sfg
   

[OnTheFly]

A few questions:

How many rounds through this gun?

Not to be insulting, and possibly a REALLY stupid question, but did you ever lubricate the firing pin channel?

Fly

[SemperFiGuy]

... but did you ever lubricate the firing pin channel?

Somewhere on this Forum I have a post advising against this very practice.

[If I'da dunnit, could never have looked Chris Z straight in the eye again.]

How Many Rounds?:
Bought used, but gun was quite clean when purchased, except for some minor holster wear.   But all the wear parts were sharp and crisp.   Like the flat place atop the chamber that had no previous wear line on it until the event occurred.   That line occurred during the blast.

I shot that gun during the past two local USPSA Level I and Level II events using factory ammo.   All in all, I've probably put about thirty-five (35) magazines or so through it.   Not all that much.

BTW.... I do put very, very light grease on the slide rail mating parts and around the barrel where it mates with the slide.   Always manage to skip the striker pin.

Thanx for askin'.

sfg

[Gary]

Your reloaded ammo from that batch, how many rounds remain?  What are you going to do with those remaining rounds? 

I dont reload.  Out of everything in the gun world, it is the thing I know the least about.  My ignorance of the subject breeds fear.  Me, I would pass on shooting the remaining rounds from that lot batch.  Just to be on the safe side. 

[Mudnrox]

Glad you are ok

[SemperFiGuy]

Gary:

Your reloaded ammo from that batch, how many rounds remain?  What are you going to do with those remaining rounds?

Bucketsful.   Ice cream buckets full.   Not kidding, either.  About five (5) buckets full.   And that's just the .40S&W reloads.   I ate all that ice cream so that I could reload all winter and have a place to put the ammo.

You have reached right into the heart of things and articulated my dilemma:  What about the rest of that reloaded ammo?  I'm working on a recovery process and may post it for Devil's Advocacy from Forum members when I get it all lined out.

mudnrox:
Thanks a bunch.

sfg

[SemperFiGuy]

Following Up w/Gunsmith Report:

][URL=http://s916.photobucket.com/user/SemperFiGuy1/media/photo_zpsa39b244b.jpg.html][/url]

Tim (gunsmith) called today with his report and commentary. 

Said that the XDM40 had been disassembled and checked out.   He indicated that the front part of the cartridge case had remained in the chamber while the back part of the case broke off and was ejected.   So the ragged piece that I found at the range must have been the actual case back end.  However, being uncertain at the time, I tossed it away, preferring instead to search for my Lost Cool and fingers at the moment and not being so preoccupied w/post mortem at that particular time.

Tim said that the handgun was actually repairable.   In fact, the only permanent damage was to the extractor, which had bent down from the blast and deformed beyond repair.   To illustrate, in the earlier posted picture(s) the next (unfired) cartridge in the magazine had been turned backwards.  It now appears that the nose of that bullet was wiped and marked by the extractor, meanwhile setting the bullet back in its case, as shown in the newer pictures immediately above.   In this process, the extractor was totaled.

Tim says that the rest of the handgun, despite the KA-BOOM, appears to be in workable order.  Apparently the slide rails returned to their proper place in the frame w/just some urging.   The slide is OK.   Except for the extractor, of course.

So--All that's needed is a brannew XDM40 extractor and the handgun is ready for testing.   

Now the problem:   No XDM40 extractors to be found anywhere.   Neither factory nor the usual gunsmithing sources.   Shelves and parts drawers are empty of this part.  Indefinite wait.   Ammo shortage is moderating; parts shortage is picking up.

Which means that I'll have to switch to my other .40S&W handguns for a while.   Including the Lone Wolf .40S&W barrel for my Glock 33 (.357SIG). 

So much for having Too Many Handguns.   (Wives, please take note.   Just go buy some more living room lamps.   They cost as much as a handgun these days.)

And that's the story for now.

sfg

[Gary]

Thanks for the update.  As for living room lamps, my wife shops at Goodwill. 

[gsd]

The problem i have seen with SA is they won't release the extractors to anyone, and you have to ship the gun to them. Cruze had a similar issue with his XD, lost a spring or something of the like. It may or may not have a Glock spring now...

[SemperFiGuy]

The problem i have seen with SA is they won't release the extractors to anyone, and you have to ship the gun to them.

Y'know, I don't really have any real heartburn over that particular approach.  I often ship guns back to mfgrs for repair, figgering that they know more about their own guns than anyone else.  Especially Old Charley over there at the company workbbench.   (Now....how to make sure the gun gets to Old Charley..........)

And...it would provide one more quality control cross-check to make sure that the gun actually is again safely shootable.  [Come to think of it, wasn't safe the first time....]

The two big problems with doing so are well-known:  time and money. 

However, I'll mention this first point to Tim and see wot's wot.

Thanks.

sfg

[Lmbass14]

Thanks for the update sfg.  Was thinking of your post this am.  Really glad it's repairable.

[Gary]

You just did an Instructors Workshop for Glock, and right away this happens.   Maybe the karma gods are talking to you.  lol   We all know Glocks never kaboom!

[DenmanShooter]

You just did an Instructors Workshop for Glock, and right away this happens.   Maybe the karma gods are talking to you.  lol   We all know Glocks never kaboom!

I think the issue is an out of battery discharge.  I also think you are correct in that Glocks won't fire out of battery. Not sure of that but you can probably confirm or set me straight.

So the question is why did the out of battery situation occur?

Easiest answer is out of spec ammo.

But it could also be a problem with the firearm.

[SemperFiGuy]

We all know Glocks never kaboom!

For the record, I did the Glock Instructor's Workshop with a Glock 23 .40S&W and Precision Metallic Cartridge (PMC) 165gr factory ammo.  [I always do classes, matches, and other group events w/factory ammo, which is perhaps less likely to KA-BOOM and do harm to others/me or Focus Attention On and Cause Great Embarrassment to the Shooter.]

I did the recent KA-BOOM with a Springfield XDM40 and my own 155gr BerrysBullets plated bullet reloads.  All alone on the range, which isn't a real good idea, either.   Last Other Shooter had just left the range.

Tim says the cause was "cartridge overpressure, cause indeterminate", but we should consider:

So the question is why did the out of battery situation occur?
Easiest answer is out of spec ammo.

Yes.  Any little speck or burr on the cartridge case or bullet will prevent the slide from going into battery.  Sure coulda happened.  And would be consistent w/Tim's more general statement.

Still Spooked.

sfg


   

[gsd]

  We all know Glocks never kaboom!

I beg to differ. I have seen what is left of a g23 that ka-boomed in the operators hand. (I figured this was in jest. But I had to say sumthin lol)

[RobertH]

thanks for the update.  let us know how the testing goes.

[newfalguy101]

  I also think you are correct in that Glocks won't fire out of battery. Not sure of that but you can probably confirm or set me straight.

I admit I don't know you well enough to know if this is supposed to be tongue in cheek or not, but on the off chance you actually believe this statement, consider this, NO guns are designed to fire out of battery, that's the reason "firing out of battery" is a failure....and ANY mechanical device *can* fail even the beloved glock.

Appreciate the update, all too often these kinds of events pop up with no follow up and just leaves us all wondering,,,,