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Author Topic: Banning Firearms in Apartments?  (Read 3165 times)

Offline patrickdm

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Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« on: August 27, 2014, 12:07:48 PM »
This was recently posted on my FB wall by a friend. I have no idea if it's true, anyone else seen or heard anything?

http://iowagunowners.org/legislation/iowa/item/83-give-up-your-guns-or-move-an-iowan-has-a-terrible-choice-to-make

Offline CitizenClark

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 12:13:05 PM »
This was recently posted on my FB wall by a friend. I have no idea if it's true, anyone else seen or heard anything?

http://iowagunowners.org/legislation/iowa/item/83-give-up-your-guns-or-move-an-iowan-has-a-terrible-choice-to-make

While I think we should absolutely use social and economic pressure to persuade businesses not to implement unreasonable rules relating to firearms, this article is incorrect. There is no Second amendment right to take firearms onto another person's private property against their will. The Second Amendment is a restraint on government, not on property owners.

Offline RLMoeller

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 12:51:49 PM »
Some states may have certain provisions that could prohibit this type of restriction, and I am not well versed on which states have passed those protections.  The big challenge for any landlord is enforcing those restrictions.  How would they know if someone, anyone, is in violation of a policy that prohibits firearms?  Keeping it hidden, they would not know.

Something that bothers me about his article is how much it reads like a NAGR fundraising letter. 

More research into this is needed.   

Offline AAllen

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 01:29:10 PM »
First I want to voice agreement with Rod that more info is needed.  But to a degree I want to disagree with CitizenClark.  This is a conflict between property and civil rights, I think we both can agree with that statement, but when resolving such conflicts you need to look at whom would face more harm.  To me the person who is having his ability to defend himself being limited faces the most possible damage.  The person owning the property only faces knowing that someone that has purchased the right to use his property is not doing what he would.  The property owner has the ability to make other use of the property rather than rent apartments.  To me this is like having a clause in the rental agreement that you will worship allah (be muslim) or vote Democrat in the lease, these are things that obviously would not be upheld by a court.

Limiting the carrying of arms in commons areas are well within the property owners rights (provided that transport between the "leased area, non public ie. apartment" and off property is not hindered) I would agree that the property owner can require what ever they wish in these public spaces.

Again Rod is correct each State has laws that cover the rental agreement between these people, I do not know Iowa laws on such but that is where things need to start.

Offline Mudinyeri

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 02:44:44 PM »
I think we need to start approaching this type of restriction, as Andy suggests, as discrimination.  Law-abiding gun owners are being discriminated against.  Our natural rights are just a much a part of us as our race, color, creed, religion and, apparently, sexual orientation.  We are born with these rights.  To deny them, even as a private property owner, is not different than to deny a gay couple a wedding cake or force a person of color to use a different bathroom or drinking fountain.

Offline patrickdm

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 04:00:39 PM »
It coming off as a fund raiser was my main reason for questioning the authenticity of it. Being a local think I thought finding more info on it would be easier but alas it's not turning out that way.

Offline AAllen

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 05:11:25 PM »
I can speak with some authority as to the tone etc. of the letter.

1 - it is a fund raising letter.  Yes it was written in a way to inform the members of an organization, and those they shared it with, about a situation that the organization was or is getting involved with and asking for donations.  Some people find fault in this, I do not.  Investigating things like this does cost money, need to discuss it with an attorney he will want to be paid, there are travel costs, and unlike the NFOA Aaron Dorr is paid by his organization for his time.  These are some of the expenses that are being taken on here, some how money needs to be raised to pay those bills.

A few years ago there was an incident at a Walgreens in Omaha, the NFOA got involved in support of one of our members and raised funds for his defense.  We sent out a letter very similar (though much shorter and distinct) asking for donations for that.

To fight the battles that need to be fought requires money and asking supporters for their financial assistance in a manner that says this is what we need your assistance with is a good way to make the request.  Of course there are those organizations that are constantly running around with the sky falling and give them money to hold it up now or you will be crushed, well not only is that just wrong but most of the time they are misleading you about the problems.

That said, want the NFOA to get more involved in things like this: make a donation.  Investigating these things can and does cost thousands of dollars just to get started some times.  Even with the Boards Members volunteering their time.

Offline patrickdm

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 05:36:46 PM »
I have no problem with fund raisers, trust me I'm involved in a couple, but prefer the more direct approach. I understand it costs money in today's world. I'm happy and proud to say I donate on a monthly basis to the NFOA.

Offline AAllen

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 06:06:41 PM »
Patrick, sorry if you felt that comment was directed at you.  It was meant for the membership in general.

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 09:38:41 PM »
While the land lord (or property owner) owns the property I am renting and living in, it is still my home as long as I pay the rent, etc.   The property owner can not, or should not be able to, prevent me from exercising my 2nd Amendment rights.  If not, then what is preventing the owner from demanding that I forgot my 1st or 4th amendment rights?   

If such rights are abrogated then the tenant should be given a document asserting the owners financial liability for any loss or harm that occurs if the tenant or family member or guest is injured or killed during the commission of a crime while residing on the property.

In the same manner any business which forbids a citizen from carry a weapon in self defense  should be held liable for injury or loss sustained by anyone within their premises.   For example, the crew member of the "COPS" show who was accidently gunned down by police in Omaha, or the countless number of people who have been injured or killed by gun toting thugs or crazy people.

Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2014, 03:37:21 PM »
Landlords should not be able to ban guns from apartments unless that is expressly put in the lease itself, which is what is happening here. When you sign a lease, you are getting those property rights you negotiate for.

It isn't a civil rights vs property right issue. Civil rights are only enforceable against the government. You can contract your civil rights away and we do all the time.

Offline AWick

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2014, 08:10:34 PM »
Regardless if you own or rent, it is still your dwelling, hearth, home, residence, abode, etc etc. Ask any landlord that tries to evict a renter who is still paying his rent on time...

If SCOTUS says the core of the 2A is in defense of hearth and home then property rights and 2A rights of the residents override the land owners rights. The landlord chose to rent his property out to the public as a private residence and it is the same as not allowing running water, electricity, natural gas, etc... except those things aren't considered an unalienable right.
"Well-regulated" meant well equipped, trained and disciplined... not controlled with an iron fist.

Offline OnTheFly

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 08:18:09 PM »
Ask any landlord that tries to evict a renter who is still paying his rent on time...

I don't think that has anything to do with the property being the renter's home.  It is a legally binding contract.  The landlord cannot evict unless the renter has not fulfilled some part of the lease agreement (i.e., broken the contract).  I'm not saying you are wrong.  I am not an attorney, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn this week.  A better example would be when a landlord tries to evict you for NOT paying the rent.  You can squat on the property until the landlord goes through all the legal channels to kick you to the curb.  So in that respect, maybe the courts consider it your "home".

Fly
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 08:21:33 PM by OnTheFly »
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Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 08:33:15 PM »
I need to revise my comment. While what I wrote is what the law is now, AWick's point really clarified my thinking. The default position is that the parties can agree to what they want unless the legislature says otherwise. In employment we cap hours, require a minimum wage, and have overtime. Renters are entitled to a habitable dwelling and not some slum lords hole.

I would support a law that invalidates restrictions on legal weapons in leases.

Offline AWick

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 08:34:42 PM »
Restricting ownership and possession of arms in defense of your "home" in apartments is a little more serious than restricting pets or displays of patriotism.
"Well-regulated" meant well equipped, trained and disciplined... not controlled with an iron fist.

Offline Jerry Lundegard

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2014, 08:47:00 PM »


If I have a mortgage , technically the bank owns the house until it is paid for.  So the bank is in effect, the land lord.  Could the bank tell me no firearms allowed?

What about vehicles?  If I lease a car, can GM tell me I am not allowed to have a firearm in the car?


Offline Husker_Fan

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2014, 02:23:18 PM »
No, the bank doesn't own your house. It has a security interest in it. The title is in your name and you are responsible for insurance, upkeep, and taxes.

Offline gsd

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2014, 02:29:05 PM »
No, the bank doesn't own your house. It has a security interest in it. The title is in your name and you are responsible for insurance, upkeep, and taxes.


Well said sir.
It is highly likely the above post may offend you. I'm fine with that.

Offline DanClrk51

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 08:30:32 AM »
Regardless if you own or rent, it is still your dwelling, hearth, home, residence, abode, etc etc. Ask any landlord that tries to evict a renter who is still paying his rent on time...

If SCOTUS says the core of the 2A is in defense of hearth and home then property rights and 2A rights of the residents override the land owners rights. The landlord chose to rent his property out to the public as a private residence and it is the same as not allowing running water, electricity, natural gas, etc... except those things aren't considered an unalienable right.

I agree with this one 100%. If you pay money then it effectively becomes YOUR property (as far as your living space goes). And if the courts don't see it this way then its time to pass a law that bans discrimination of this sort.

Offline DanClrk51

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Re: Banning Firearms in Apartments?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2014, 08:32:48 AM »
Restricting ownership and possession of arms in defense of your "home" in apartments is a little more serious than restricting pets or displays of patriotism.

Exactly, its an affront to my person.