Panera Bread bans guns

[aceflyer]

http://journalstar.com/business/local/panera-asks-customers-to-leave-guns-at-home/article_179b4fc3-6fae-5260-8fb3-ab1b0c76c407.html

[DenmanShooter]

I don't like Panera Bread anyway.  Over priced and pretentious.

[farmerbob]

From what I've read Panera is just formally asking customers not to bring guns into their stores. They or their employees won't be enforcing this as they will follow state and local laws.

I think avoiding them all together would be the best route or cover it up.

[DenmanShooter]

From what I've read Panera is just formally asking customers not to bring guns into their stores. They or their employees won't be enforcing this as they will follow state and local laws.

I think avoiding them all together would be the best route or cover it up.

Ah, sort of like Target.  A little attempt to soothe both sides. 

[Kendahl]

Did they put up a sign? If not, keep it concealed and carry anyway. These companies just want to do business. Getting involved in the gun control argument is a losing proposition for them. If we don't put them on the spot, they are likely to leave us alone.

[Greybeard]

I will continue to eat there and with my concealed carry just as before. When they post signs I will give them one of my "No guns = No Money" cards and that will be the last they see of me and my money.

[farmerbob]

It sounds like they will not post their stores.

Panera is doing this because of pressure from anti-gun groups in light of open carrying of long guns in stores. 

CC I think will work as long as it stays concealed.

[AAllen]

This is like Target, Starbucks and more that everyone keeps saying has gone anti gun.  They are all following state and local laws, they just don't want to be involved in our political fight.  So no open carry gatherings, no carrying your AR - just cause you can.  Please show these businesses some respect and they will continue to respect your right to defend yourself, they just don't want to be in the fight.

[Dan W]

they just don't want to be in the fight.

Then they shouldn't pick a side

[AAllen]

Then they shouldn't pick a side

They didn't they just asked us to allow them to be neutral.  They did not ban the carry of firearms, none of these places posted.  What they did is request people to follow state and local laws and respect them enough not to use them for publicity.

[Dan W]

What they did is request people to follow state and local laws

And open carry does not?

[DR4NRA]

So, basically what you are saying is that your rights under the constitution and the law to openly carry an AR on your shoulder is more important than their rights under the same constitution and law to ask nicely that you don't in their place of business? Sounds hypocritical to me.

[Mudinyeri]

No sign at the 134th & Maple Panera.  Based on what I saw in the press release, there won't be any signs and their employees have been instructed not to confront anyone with a gun.

I think these retail stores and restaurants are trying to placate the Mom's Demand Action crowd while allowing law-abiding gun owners to continue to carry in their stores and restaurants.  It's a fence-riding approach.  Anyone who grew up on a farm knows that riding a fence can be pretty uncomfortable.  Eventually, you're going to land on one side or the other.

[GreyGeek]

They can't have it both ways.  Either they allow free American citizens with a Constitutional right to bear arms for their personal defense into their stores, or they assume ALL responsibility and liability for any customers injured during the commission of a crime while on their premises.  Put their money where their mouth is.

[DR4NRA]

They can't have it both ways.  Either they allow free American citizens with a Constitutional right to bear arms for their personal defense into their stores, or they assume ALL responsibility and liability for any customers injured during the commission of a crime while on their premises.  Put their money where their mouth is.

Read this, http://butlerpappas.com/1411.
Many court decisions have upheld that a business has "No Duty to Protect" it's patrons. I also would like to remind you that LE has no duty to protect you from crime either.

[JTH]

Read this, http://butlerpappas.com/1411.
Many court decisions have upheld that a business has "No Duty to Protect" it's patrons. I also would like to remind you that LE has no duty to protect you from crime either.

Since there is no requirement for you to go to that place, you can't really argue that you were forced to be disarmed and helpless.

A business can make that call.  Up to them.  Their private building, their choice. 

Now, I must admit in cases where you HAVE to go there (for example, some state buildings such as the DMV) I think that if they make you go there but don't allow you to defend yourself, then indeed they SHOULD be forced to assume responsibility for your protection.  After all, they are forcing you to be comparatively defenseless.  Against, for example, our state constitution.

But again, for places like Panera---it is a private building, and you don't have to go there.  If you choose to do so, it is no different than if the business says "no shoes, no shirt, no service," yes?  You need to match their entrance requirements.

Which is why, I'll note, that I don't go to private businesses that don't allow concealed carry.  As for Panera----they are making the smart business choice of keeping a vocal group happy while allowing everyone to do pretty much exactly what they were doing before.  Am I thrilled about their choice?  No, I'd rather have them vocally support legal gun owners.  Am I surprised at their choice?  Not at all.

After all, their business is food, not politics, and they want to sell lots of food to everyone. 

I note:  while I personally am not interested in open carry, and I think most of the attention-seeking open carry folks we've seen in the news lately are idiots, that doesn't change the fact that I'm not thrilled that businesses are now asking people who open carry to please not do so.  (I'll note that "attention-seeking open carry folks we've seen in the news lately" is not a category that includes all open-carry folks.)

But private businesses have the right to make their own choices about what they allow in or not.  Not going to go out of my way to give them money for their choice---but I certainly respect their right to MAKE that choice.

[Kendahl]

They can't have it both ways.

Have you ever dealt with someone who tells you what you want to hear but never takes action to implement what he said? I think Panera and others are doing that to the anti-gunners. If Panera hasn't posted signs, nothing has changed. You can still patronize them while armed. They don't plan to confront anyone which would only apply to open carriers. All they are asking for is wiggle room. In my opinion, a strategy of "If you're not for us, you're against us" would be disastrous. It would unnecessarily make enemies of those who have nothing against us and, unless pushed, would just as soon leave us alone.

[Mudinyeri]

No, you don't have to go to Panera.  However, if you go there, you have a reasonable expectation of safety.  Think of slipping on a wet floor in a super market as an example.  I don't think there is any case law yet that specifically deals with "protecting" patrons from violence.

With that said, a federal judge just ruled that the Aurora, CO theater where the mass shooting took place "could have reasonably enough foreseen the danger of such an attack to be held liable for it".

Now, I'm no attorney but if you ask your customers to lower their ability to defend themselves it seems "legally foreseeable" that they are at greater risk to violent attacks.

[farmerbob]

I'm right there with jthhapkido on the open carry but when does this start to infringe on constitutional rights? If carrying a firearm and the right of self defense are basic civil rights then I believe these are rights we should have everywhere.

I personally can think of several individual rights businesses at one time didn't have to allow in their business. More recently a bakery had to make a cake for a gay wedding.

I guess if you are a gun owner no one cares if you are discriminated against.

[AAllen]

As for Panera----they are making the smart business choice of keeping a vocal group happy while allowing everyone to do pretty much exactly what they were doing before.  Am I thrilled about their choice?  No, I'd rather have them vocally support legal gun owners.  Am I surprised at their choice?  Not at all.

After all, their business is food, not politics, and they want to sell lots of food to everyone. 

This is the point, good note JTH. 

But to add, they have not taken a position that you can not open carry, even an AR-15 if it is legal in that jurisdiction.  They simply want us (those supportive of gun rights) to give them some room to be neutral.  They do not want to be part of the show, why can't we respect that?