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Author Topic: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)  (Read 6630 times)

Offline NE Bull

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2014, 08:35:50 AM »
I have heard thru the grapevines that nothing will/can be done at the Market since it is conducted on/in a public access parking lot- per law. 
I have not confirmed this as of yet......
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Offline Dan W

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2014, 11:35:42 AM »
I agree that GG's story is very compelling, but I also acknowledge that very few read a long post on the internet whether or not they agree with the message

 TL:dr
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Offline GreyGeek

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2014, 12:54:39 PM »
I agree that GG's story is very compelling, but I also acknowledge that very few read a long post on the internet whether or not they agree with the message

 TL:dr

True.  They are called low information voters and full time trolls.

Offline Mali

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2014, 01:50:15 PM »
I agree that GG's story is very compelling, but I also acknowledge that very few read a long post on the internet whether or not they agree with the message

 TL:dr

I agree that most will not take the time to read a long post, guilty as charged sometimes, but in this case I hope the receiver, the farmers market board, do take the time to read and contemplate the message he sent.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2014, 03:10:09 PM »
Reading is hard.  If it can't be condensed into a meme a lot of people can't comprehend it.

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2014, 03:27:57 PM »
Reading is hard.  If it can't be condensed into a meme a lot of people can't comprehend it.

Unfortunately, those people also vote, which is why jingle politics is so popular.  Comprehension is certainly lacking.   Such lack is evident when Hassebrook can claim in an ad that Pete Ricketts is a tax avoider.   

Of course he is.  So was I and so are most other Americans, including Hassebrook, which makes his statement hypocritical.

Tax avoidance or dodging is a legal way of paying less taxes.  If the IRS offered me an exemption I took it.  So does Hassebrook, unless he is an idiot.  If Hassebrook wants to write a fat check to the IRS for taxes he doesn't have to pay he has that right.   But most people listening to Hassebrook's rant would assume that Ricketts is guilty of tax fraud.   If that were provable Hassebrook has a civic responsibility to bring the evidence to the proper authorities.   Otherwise, he is just playing the class warfare game to gain an advantage with the low information voters.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:40:13 AM by GreyGeek »

Offline MissMichella

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2014, 11:18:31 PM »
Reading is hard.  If it can't be condensed into a meme a lot of people can't comprehend it.

I actually laughed out loud. 

GG email is very compelling and well-spoken.  Working criminal investigation and prosecution definitely cemented my decision to carry.  I hope they absorb it!

In pondering the issue, it would make more sense (and less work) for the OCFM board to simply say that they follow State and Federal laws.  It's an easy out for them, no?  That way they would not have to worry about extra enforcement for any bans they may pass.  Then if people have an issue, they can take it up with the government...and I can get some delicious produce in peace. 

I know I keep saying it, but I'm really grateful to you all for the support.   
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Offline RobertH

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2014, 11:44:56 PM »
I actually laughed out loud. 

GG email is very compelling and well-spoken.  Working criminal investigation and prosecution definitely cemented my decision to carry.  I hope they absorb it!

In pondering the issue, it would make more sense (and less work) for the OCFM board to simply say that they follow State and Federal laws.  It's an easy out for them, no?  That way they would not have to worry about extra enforcement for any bans they may pass.  Then if people have an issue, they can take it up with the government...and I can get some delicious produce in peace. 

I know I keep saying it, but I'm really grateful to you all for the support.   

in my email i sent the board, i told them to follow all state and local laws.  i said it was an easy out and no one get mad because they wouldn't have to pick a side.  i also alluded that anti-gun groups forcing companies to pick a side is shameful.
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Offline Mali

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2014, 07:33:17 AM »
in my email i sent the board, i told them to follow all state and local laws.  i said it was an easy out and no one get mad because they wouldn't have to pick a side.  i also alluded that anti-gun groups forcing companies to pick a side is shameful.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but really this shouldn't be about an organization making a decision about whether anyone carries in their facility, it really should be whether the laws are sufficient.  If they really want to take away our guns then instead of playing games with opinion and letting the voice of a few influence the many they let the people decide and abide by that decision.

Oh, wait that was done already and they lost.
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Offline ILoveCats

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2014, 08:44:38 AM »
I agree that GG's story is very compelling, but I also acknowledge that very few read a long post on the internet whether or not they agree with the message

 TL:dr

True but I'm not sure that detracts from GG's excellent story because the most virulent antis are the half-educated ones who think themselves educated and superior as they lump gun owners in the lowest common denominator bucket of the most backward bucktooth bubba they can find.  This is why OC in the (*gasp!*) farmers market (the secular Holy Of Holies for people who drive Toyota Yaris’s plastered with “Mean People Suck” and “Coexist” bumper stickers) has them even more dazed and confused than their usual dazed state.  One of the antis on the HF Crave facebook page actually said “we’re trying to build a society here, people”; they actually think their can improve society to the point where bad people will never do bad things.

This is why intelligent and thoughtful stories like GG’s are valuable to smack them down (and they usually don’t reply).  They aren't the only ones with post-graduate education or worldly experience.  In fact I'll stack my visa-stamp filled passports up next to theirs any day and we'll see who has the most "cross cultural" perspective.  I’ve bored a few of you and them with my tales of having lived in a West African dictatorship and why firearm ownership is a human right.  I could tell them to watch Hotel Rwanda and then try to explain to me how/why lethal self-defense isn’t a human right, but the Flower Power people think that doesn’t apply to us.  They think we’ve evolved beyond a society where people do such terrible things and we only need just a couple more laws to put the finishing touches on it and finally ring in the Age of Aquarius.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:50:02 AM by feralcatkillr »
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Offline Lmbass14

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2014, 09:30:46 AM »
True but I'm not sure that detracts from GG's excellent story because the most virulent antis are the half-educated ones who think themselves educated and superior as they lump gun owners in the lowest common denominator bucket of the most backward bucktooth bubba they can find.  This is why OC in the (*gasp!*) farmers market (the secular Holy Of Holies for people who drive Toyota Yaris’s plastered with “Mean People Suck” and “Coexist” bumper stickers) has them even more dazed and confused than their usual dazed state. 


Thanks feralcatkillr, now have to youtube Led Zepplin and listen to Dazed and Confused.

Offline Greybeard

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2014, 09:46:30 AM »
This is what I sent to the OCFM people on 30 September:

Dear Sir/Madam,

First let me thank you for your time to consider my input. I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in on this subject.

Here in the Heartland of The United States of America I find some of the most hard working, down to earth people I have had the occasion to encounter. I am not a  native of this state, having arrived here in 1987 from an overseas assignment. I retired from the USAF in 1992 as a Chief Master Sergeant at Offutt AFB after a career of 29 years.

I note that Article 1 of your State Constitution refers to the Right to Bear Arms and guarantees that it shall not be infringed. It does not surprise me that a state in the heart of these United States would place such an emphasis on that right. After all, when you think about it, all of our other rights, enumerated in the U.S. Constitution, are protected by the Second Amendment.

As your board deliberates a policy regarding the carry of firearms, open or concealed, in your market, I ask that you consider the U.S. and Nebraska Constitutions. Generally speaking, the people who openly carry a firearm are well versed in its use, and are of good character. The Constitutions do not levy that requirement on the people. Think about it, would a bad guy advertise that he was about to misbehave?

Thank you for your consideration 


Stan Klein, Sr.
WØCHF

Offline MissMichella

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2014, 10:04:56 AM »
Please see the board's statement below regarding firearms at Market.

The mission of the Old Cheney Road Farmers’ Market (OCRFM), is to “provide access to high quality, fresh food produced with integrity by local family farmers and producers, bringing value to the social, environmental, and economic fabric of our community.”

We see ourselves as an integral part of a healthy, thriving, Lincoln community. As a Board of Directors (“the Board”) we strive for excellence. We value everyone who supports the market in a thoughtful and respectful, law abiding way; to not invoke fear or any other form of disrespect for human life and dignity.

In a very short period of time, the Board has been expected to determine policy that will impact all of our customers, and we have received promises from those both for and against firearms at market that their patronage of our vendors will cease if we do not support their position. It appears we cannot avoid damage to the market regardless of our actions. However, the OCRFM does not exist to make political statements outside of the sphere of food and farming.

The Board has been advised by legal counsel that we are well within our rights to prohibit firearms at the Old Cheney Road Farmers’ Market. At this time the Board chooses to take no policy action regarding the presence of firearms within our market. We maintain that the market is a family friendly place, not a platform for political statements. We respectfully request that patrons and vendors not bring firearms to market.

This recent debate is the result of a single, holstered firearm at market carried by a long time, respectful and loyal customer. If many more firearms suddenly appear at market, the Board may interpret this as an attempt to disrespect the OCRFM and our patrons who disagree with this difficult decision. If we feel so challenged, the Board may choose to quickly and decisively prohibit firearms at the OCRFM in the future.

The OCRFM has no record of a crime ever being committed at market, and the area is generally very safe and secure. While firearms may bring comfort to those that carry them, we have heard from many patrons who are in no way comforted by the presence of a deadly weapon. We respect the 2nd Amendment rights of individuals, but we remind everyone that our goal is simply to connect local farmers with local consumers while fostering a safe, open, and welcoming space for community engagement.

OCRFM Board of Directors
October 4, 2014
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Offline abbafandr

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2014, 11:04:46 AM »
Sounds like they are trying have it both ways. 
I totally support open carry though I choose not to. 
For the record, I do NOT have a pair of shorts like that  :laugh:(collective sigh of relief

Offline bkoenig

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2014, 11:59:02 AM »
Sounds like they are trying have it both ways. 
I totally support open carry though I choose not to. 
For the record, I do NOT have a pair of shorts like that  :laugh:(collective sigh of relief)




















Yeah, pretty much the exact same thing Target, Chipotle, Starbucks, etc have done.  They don't ban it, just "request" that people leave them at home.

Offline Lmbass14

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2014, 12:27:08 PM »
Please see the board's statement below regarding firearms at Market.

The Board has been advised by legal counsel that we are well within our rights to prohibit firearms at the Old Cheney Road Farmers’ Market. At this time the Board chooses to take no policy action regarding the presence of firearms within our market. We maintain that the market is a family friendly place, not a platform for political statements. We respectfully request that patrons and vendors not bring firearms to market.


I'm confused.  The bold sentence told me that they are going to leave everything as is.  So that means Miss M can carry.  Right?

2nd bold says:  Nope, can't carry.

So they did make a verdict by telling people they can't exercise their 2nd A. rights.


Please see the board's statement below regarding firearms at Market.

This recent debate is the result of a single, holstered firearm at market carried by a long time, respectful and loyal customer.

They like Miss M. :-)

Offline GreyGeek

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Re: OH MY! OCing in the OC (Farmers Market)
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2014, 12:27:57 PM »
Note: this posting is not a tweet!

...  It appears we cannot avoid damage to the market regardless of our actions. However, the OCRFM does not exist to make political statements outside of the sphere of food and farming.
Two  valid assertions.  However, MissMichella has been open carrying at the market in previous years and it was the Anti-2A crowd which politicized her presence and attempted to demonize her and other supporters of the 2nd Amendment. NFOA members could not, and should not, let their assertions and whines go unanswered.  Those who do not contest a political statement concede to those who do.

I find it very sad, as I did in January of 2012 when I defended the Constitution on the steps of the Nebraska Capital building, that it is necessary to continue to defend that document on which our Rule Of Law in this Republic is based.  There is little doubt, and history confirms, that if the 2nd Amendment is nullified then the remaining Rights will soon follow, and freedom in this country will be gone.  Many say that most of the first ten Amendments are already partially or completely nullified by government actions, and that most of our freedoms are gone, and I must agree.  If  you haven't noticed it, it is because your ox hasn't been gored... yet.  Wait until your opinion is labeled politically incorrect hate speech and you are prosecuted for a hate crime, your emails or private papers, or funds are taken without a warrant, your children cannot practice their religion in the places and the ways you did, your car is stopped without probably cause and searched without a warrant and if you do not answer personal or private questions your silence is taken as guilt and you are charged with "resisting arrest", and other rights you thought you had are no longer protected by the ninth amendment.  Simply because those whom YOU elected, and who took an oath of office in which they swore to "uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC, and they took this OBLIGATION without mental reservations or purpose of evasion", LIED and had reservations or evasions.  And why are they continually re-elected?  Because they take the money earned by others, whom they demonize as "rich" or "privileged", and give it to those who did not earn it.  A  Quid Quo Pro for votes.

... The Board has been advised by legal counsel that we are well within our rights to prohibit firearms at the Old Cheney Road Farmers’ Market. At this time the Board chooses to take no policy action regarding the presence of firearms within our market. We maintain that the market is a family friendly place, not a platform for political statements. We respectfully request that patrons and vendors not bring firearms to market.
As a "respectful request" it has no force of law if the required and proper "No Guns" signs are not conspicuously posted at all entrances, but I suspect that many anti-2A advocates would see the request as a victory, so the board HAS made a statement with political consequences.  However, as a CHP holder who NEVER carries openly I would continue to carry concealed, even at that market.  What other patrons cannot see they cannot complain about.

This recent debate is the result of a single, holstered firearm at market carried by a long time, respectful and loyal customer. If many more firearms suddenly appear at market, the Board may interpret this as an attempt to disrespect the OCRFM and our patrons who disagree with this difficult decision. If we feel so challenged, the Board may choose to quickly and decisively prohibit firearms at the OCRFM in the future.

Obviously, they are asking people to not carry openly but they are not banning concealed carry, or they would have put up the necessary legal signs.   

Before the Texas Clock Tower incident in 1968 people thought nothing about other folks carrying in the open because that was a generally understood unalienable right, and NOBODY had to exercise that right to make a political point.  Then came the massive abridgments of that which "shall not be abridged",  imposed in the following years by politicians who lied in taking their oath of office, and the  massive anti-2A publicity and disinformation  campaigns by the Democrats. 

In the 1950's, as a 12, 13 or 14 year old boy,  nobody paid any attention to me while I road my bike into the country side with my .22 rifle strapped to my back.  Later, as a 15 or 16 year old, when that weapon became a sporterized M1  Garand, still nobody noticed or cared.   Back then, 50 years ago, many people carried rifles in racks in the back window of their pickups, or behind the front seat, and many, many more carried handguns in their glove compartments or pockets of their clothing.  Perhaps even a majority. Nobody stole the guns because guns were inexpensive and ammo was cheap.   Just about every hardware or department store sold them.     I don't remember as much crime back then as there is today, but back then the occasional nut caused problems, and there were armed robberies, but nobody got hysterical.

That said, consider this:  armed criminals and thugs always carry concealed.  When they enter an establishment with the intent of robbing it, they have the advantage.  They see the person who is open carrying.  The thug knows what he intends to do, but the person open carrying does not know what the thug intends to do.   The thug has the element of surprise and can choose when and where to attack.  His first target will be the person with the gun.  If the thug has no respect for life the first shot will be to the head of the person carrying in the open, at point blank range.  Or, which is unlikely, the person carrying in the open will feel something in their ribs and hear a warning, "one move and you are dead!".  They won't move as the thug disarms them and then proceeds to rob the store.  Now, the thug has two weapons.  Or, if he was using a knife or an airgun, he now has a firearm, and the person open carrying has played into the hands of that Anti-2A people who will shout "Didn't we tell you this would happen?", etc...., besides loosing their expensive weapon.

I don't care if Farmer's Market gets robbed.  I do care that someone who does not wish me well would see my gun IF I carried it in the open.  I'll make my political statement at rallies, in letters to the editor, as msgs posted on the Internet.  But, most importantly, I'll make my political statement at the ballot box, where it counts the most.  And, if anyone is to be surprised, it will be the thug with the gun who intends to attack me.  At least I'll have a fighting chance.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 12:37:24 PM by GreyGeek »