Best place for carbide bits... update with sort of finished 80% project on pg 2

[RobertH]

for Black Friday, i'm going to be buying a jig and maybe an 80% lower or two.  while i can buy a jig with carbide drill bits and an end mill, is there any place locally (Lincoln) that sells these bits:
3/8" drill bit
5/32" drill bit
19/64" drill bit
1/4 x 4" end mill (3 or 4 flute)

the tool kits online are roughly $45 for the carbide bits.  online, the prices are about the same or even higher.  i'd like to help out a local company if i can and see what i'm buying in person.

PS - i stopped by Harbor Freight, Menards and Home Depot and could not find those bits or end mill.

[shooter]

 the hard part ive found is finding a 1/4 inch mill  that long,

  M.S.C. supply,   http://www.mscdirect.com/?cid=ppc-bing-Brand+Core_Bbn41ZG6_msc%20industrial%20supply_e_3281047841_c&mkwid=Bbn41ZG6&pcrid=3281047841&002=2167518&004=426256217&005=6025434725&006=3281047841&009=e&011=msc%20industrial%20supply

   ENCO     http://www.use-enco.com/1/3/milling-machine-cutting-tools

[RobertH]

i found several options that are close on Amazon and eBay, but i'd rather not do business with anti-gun leanings.

i've been leaning towards the Modulus Arms universal jig and tool kit.  hopefully Black Friday will be nice to me.  i also wouldn't mind having a spare end mill too.

[shooter]

 there tool kit only shows one mill drill bit,  you need a mill-drill bit, it can mill on the side and also drill a hole, but you need a 3/8 mill. and a 1/4 inch mill, you also need a mill with at least 1 1/2 inch of cutting surface, that one looks like a standard 5/8 inch cut length. also, the holes in the jig do not have hardened inserts in it,
   

 if you want to, come on over and look at mine, that will give you a idea of the difference

  also you do not drill the holes for the pins and saftey to size, you first drill the pin holes with a 9/64 drill bit, then you have to ream them to .156
  the safety you use a 23/64 drill and ream that to.376.

[sparky0068]

Carbide and aluminum don't go well, high speed steel works best.

[metaldoc]

What Sparky said...  ^^^^   

Use High Speed Steel drill bits.  Carbide can and will likely ruin the drill guides in your jig and certainly isn't needed to work aluminum.

[RobertH]

So use high speed drill bits but carbide end mill is ok?

[metaldoc]

High Speed Steel for the end mill as well.  There are actually end mills made specifically for aluminum aren't necessary.   Be sure to use a good cutting lubricant.  I use Rapid-Tap for aluminum. 

Check industrial tool suppliers in the Yellow Pages for Lincoln but you'll likely have the best luck online.

[00BUCK]

Productivity Inc
8402 S 117th St,

La Vista, NE 68128

(402) 330-2323


Is where I buy my end mills. I have not had any issues using carbide to finish 80% lowers, in fact I prefer carbide over HSS.

[RobertH]

off the top of my head, the 80% manufacturers suggest using carbide bits, that is why i was planning on using carbide.  some of the carbide bits i have found on the net said they are designed for aircraft aluminum and some reviewers said they used it on an 80% lower.

[tstuart34]

Grainger is in Lincoln. You could also try fastenal

[Ivars]

Fastenal has end mills in stock for a reasonable price.  If you plan to use a drill press, good luck. 
 

[RobertH]

after some searching today, i have prices of jigs and tool kits written down, so when (or if) any of the 80% lower makers have a sale, i will be able to see how much savings there really is.  i think buying a jig and tool kit will hopefully be easier on me not having to go hunt down the right bits.  i plan on using a universal jig, so i can do almost any lower without much fitting.  i also plan on using a drill and router.

has anyone used the Modulus Arms universal jib, 80% Arms Easy jig, Juggernaut Tactical universal jig or the North West Custom Precision universal jig?

[AWick]

I've bought a few things from Ares Armor. An 80% lower is on the horizon. They have good deals and equipment. Haven't looked in a while but I thought they sold tool kits as well.

[shooter]

 your going to use a router? Ive never tried that on aluminum. but might work,

  here is the jig I bought 2 of

 

[RobertH]

shooter, who makes that jig?

[zofoman]

OSG is the brand that most of the high-end shops use.  Many are DOD contractors and their tolerances are extremely critical.
Sound advice is to invest in the right tools the first time.  You just increase your overall costs when failure occurs and you have to replace that bargain tool with a better more expensive one...not to mention cost of your potentially damaged product.   Just my .02

OSG Tap & Die cutting tools
402-980-1714

[SS_N_NE]

I am a machinist and have finished a forged 80% lower.

Carbide bits are expensive, fragile and expensive. Carbide requires rigid machine setups and are not the best choice for occasional, lighter or more manual (like drill press and jig) work. High Speed Steel (HSS) is more forgiving and will machine aluminum very effectively at a much lower cost. Use WD-40 to keep the aluminum from cold welding (sticking) to the cutters and drills. It is best to have compressed air available to frequently clear away chips (there will be a lot for such a small project). Carbide is awesome material but can be easily chipped by handling and application errors. A sharp HSS tool will last a long time in aluminum and resist a number of errors plus a very low cost. STILL...try to stick to name brand tools bits, there are some cheap import tools that are just "look like tools" (Harbor Freight), the low cost import tools at a place like Enco, will be up to the job. It is difficult to explain the difference, but just to be aware that there is some true junk tooling out there.

Enco is a reasonable resource and allows choice of cutter quality...the cheapest tooling will work fine and do dozens of lowers if not abused (intentionally or unintentionally...machine work generally involves a lot of trial learning...the hard way).

Placement of the holes for trigger group and safety are the most critical part of finishing the lower. A decent jig makes that part fairly fool proof. Squaring up to your fixture will be critical or you can force a drill to go off course. I machined my own fixture, basically to hold the receiver for machine work and line up the jig in a milling machine so the jig guide holes are not really touched during the drilling operations. Better jigs will have hardened bushings to give more life to less sophisticated machine work, like using a drill press.  As pointed out previously, carbide will cut hardened bushings and that their own path if set up incorrectly. The HSS bits are less likely to cut drill bushings (but great care should be taken to make the bits run as true as possible). Running the bits into a hole and backing out frequently will clear chips and make for truer holes (lots of WD-40). Drills do not make nice holes. Cutting undersize and using a final size reamer will produce the better results.

The lowers are forgiving to small amounts of error. A unit trigger group could possibly save a botched job. The balance of the cavity work is less critical than the trigger/safety group holes and can allow significant error and produce a functional receiver. Sticking to measurements is important, but difficult to get "mil spec" in the "drill press" type machine work many people are doing.

[00BUCK]

Fastenal has end mills in stock for a reasonable price.  If you plan to use a drill press, good luck. 
 

No luck needed, just get a basic understanding of milling (use conventional not climb) and A LOT of patience. You are not using a milling machine and drill presses don't like a lot of side pressure, so TAKE IT SLOW and only remove about 1/8" of depth per pass. Understand that it won't be perfect and pretty like a CNC job, but done right, you will have a completely functional lower.

[RobertH]

well i jumped on a Modulus universal jig and two end mill bits (in case i broke one).  it came to $198 shipped.  Modulus Arms and 80% Arms both have Black Friday deals going on now.  i picked Modulus because their jig can be used with New Frontier Armory billet lowers and 80% Arms cannot.