< Back to the Main Site

Author Topic: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem  (Read 2821 times)

Offline mott555

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 200
Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« on: December 03, 2014, 03:14:54 PM »
So far I've only shot .223 Remington through my AR-15 though it has a 5.56 NATO chamber. I've kept all my brass and I have enough now to start thinking about reloading. I don't have a die set for this cartridge yet but I'm looking at the RCBS .223 Rem 2-die set. I have some questions since I've never dealt with interchangeable cartridges before.

1) Would a .223 Rem die set work fine on 5.56 brass? I know there are minor differences but I don't know if that matters here. I haven't actually seen 5.56 dies anywhere.

2) Since I have a 5.56 chamber, would it be possible or desirable to reload my .223 Rem brass to 5.56 specs?

3) So far most of my saved .223 brass is remanufactured Ultramax, I assume that means they were commercial reloads, should I be concerned about that?

4) Any miscellaneous tips or general suggestions for 5.56/.223? I'm fairly new to reloading and so far the only cartridge I've done work with is 7mm Remington Magnum in a bolt gun, not sure if semi-auto changes things up at all.

Offline tstuart34

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Posts: 885
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 04:12:03 PM »
So far I've only shot .223 Remington through my AR-15 though it has a 5.56 NATO chamber. I've kept all my brass and I have enough now to start thinking about reloading. I don't have a die set for this cartridge yet but I'm looking at the RCBS .223 Rem 2-die set. I have some questions since I've never dealt with interchangeable cartridges before.

1) Would a .223 Rem die set work fine on 5.56 brass? I know there are minor differences but I don't know if that matters here. I haven't actually seen 5.56 dies anywhere.

Yes for the most part dimentionaly the brass is the same most of my brass is Lake City which is a little heavier dimensionally

2) Since I have a 5.56 chamber, would it be possible or desirable to reload my .223 Rem brass to 5.56 specs?

More then likely you will not be able to load to 556 specs because finding a powder to get the velocities out of that load is difficult load to you manual and watch for pressure signs. Don't push things there is no need to blow up your face.

3) So far most of my saved .223 brass is remanufactured Ultramax, I assume that means they were commercial reloads, should I be concerned about that?

always inspect your brass for signs of fatigue ie cracks dents etc

4) Any miscellaneous tips or general suggestions for 5.56/.223? I'm fairly new to reloading and so far the only cartridge I've done work with is 7mm Remington Magnum in a bolt gun, not sure if semi-auto changes things up at all.

Same thing just smaller
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 04:25:46 PM by tstuart34 »

Offline JAK

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 231
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 04:20:03 PM »
The difference between the .223 and 5.56 is the 5.56 has a longer throat (area between the chamber and the start of the rifling) which changes how pressure develops when the cartridge fires.  To the best of my knowledge there is no difference between a die for .223 and one for 5.56.  I do not know if they even make a 5.56 die.

In order to load to 5.56 specs just use the 5.56 specs out of the reloading manual.  The latest Hornady manual has .223, .223 service rifle, and 5.56 data.

Check the back of the cartridge case and see if it as a small cross in a circle.  That is now NATO cartridge cases are marked.  Also most of the small arms ammunition comes from the Lake City Depot and is marked LC and the year of manufacture.  If you have either of those the cases are 5.56.   

They should have had the primer crimp removed when Ultramax loaded them so you shouldn't need to worry about that. 

The only other difference is they may have less internal volume then a .223 cartridge case.  The rule used to be to reduce all loads by one grain when using military catridge cases vs. commercial cases.  I have heard that the more recently manufactured military cartridge cases are exactly the same as the commercial, but have not been able to verify that.

Biggest difference between a bolt gun and a semi for reloading is that you must full length resize, otherwise you may run into feeding issue's.   

Hope that helps,

John K

Offline shooter

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2013
  • Location: near Yutan
  • Posts: 1630
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 04:20:26 PM »
 when you buy your die set, a .223 set will be fine, but make damn sure you get a small base die set, it sizes the brass just a hair smaller so it works better in a semi auto.ive loaded several hundred thousand rounds with these.

   then make sure you check the primer pockets, the ones that have been loaded before will be ok, but military brass has crimped primers, and you cant seat a primer until you remove that crimp,

  on once fired brass , check over all length, make sure that it is within limits. if its to long the ammo may not fit in the mag,
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:55:10 PM by shooter »
Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich stärker
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
 NRA Endowment member
  Shoot  them in the crotch.  Clint Smith, thunder ranch.  Oct 14, 2016

Offline SS_N_NE

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 429
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 08:46:13 PM »
Basically, the 5.56/.223 are the same cartridge and .223 reloading dies handle reloading 5.56.
5.56 is more of a chamber specification than anything to do with the brass.

As with all brass...measure and correct before reloading. Such as, size and/or trim to correct length before each reload.

I have been using Lee Precision die sets with the additional "Factory Crimp Die" (pistol and rifle).  Since my firearms are auto loaders, the FCD ensures my rounds will chamber. Some rifle die sets have a neck sizing die for chamber sized brass (brass fired in your rifle chamber). For an AR, you most likely will be using a full size die (to size and decap), seat and crimp die, followed by the FCD to make rounds that should fit any firearm of that caliber.

For the brass, check condition, clean, ream primer pockets if needed to clear military crimp (can just chamfer with a case mouth tool to remove the sharp crimp edge...or use an expensive purpose swage die/tool) and run through resize die to decap and size. Measure length and determine if trimming is needed (cases can and often do stretch in length from being fired). It is not so much of a problem with fitting the mag as it is fitting the chamber.

Answers to questions:
1. Yes, use .223 die set.
2. Load per the .223 die set. I loading for accuracy, sort out bullet to rifling distance (most likely after sifting through a number of internet reloading forums). It seems distance the bullet travels before hitting the barrel rifling can influnce performance.
3. Main concerns will be condition and your processing to reload.
4. As per above. Main consideration will be sizing brass to chamber automatically. A factory crimp type die takes care auto chambering. The round will be looser than a chamber sized brass and accuracy will not be like a chamber sized brass in a bolt gun. You trade off a little accuracy for firing speed.

Offline mott555

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 200
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2014, 09:57:19 AM »
Thanks for the info. I think I'm going to go to Scheel's after work and see what they have.

For now I'll only be reloading .223 since I haven't even fired any of my 5.56 yet, but I wanted to make sure I understood any implications before starting.

I was looking at .224 bullets online and these Hornadys look like a good starting point for general-purpose ammo. 55 grain, and soft-point. I want soft-point so I can use them at indoor ranges. However they have a cannelure, does that raise any issues? I'd think my bullet seating die would have to crimp for that to work? Good or bad thing?

Somewhat orthogonal to this discussion, I happen to have an old Winchester bolt rifle chambered in .218 Bee which uses .224 bullets. If I ever managed to actually find brass or even factory ammo, I'll be reloading that too. Would be nice if I could get a good load for both guns using the same bullets.

Offline mott555

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 200
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2014, 10:16:24 AM »
Here's a question about powder. I have most of a pound of IMR 4350 I'd bought for my 7mm Rem Mag but couldn't get load I liked with it (2 - 3 MOA depending on powder charge, not horrible, but not great). Neither my Nosler nor Hornady reloading manuals have .223 loads with IMR 4350. Would it be a bad idea to try it in a .223 load? I'd use the load for short-range plinking so stellar accuracy wouldn't be a requirement.

Otherwise it won't get used, but I'd be open to trading for a powder I can use.

Offline mott555

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 200
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2014, 10:27:34 AM »
I just answered my own question by doing some Google searches. The consensus on IMR 4350 in .223 is basically don't do it unless you have a really long barrel or like cleaning your gun. Best to save it for something like a 7mm Rem Mag which is funny because neither I nor my buddies who reload that caliber have been able to get great accuracy with that powder.

I can always sit on it until I trade my Remington 770 for a real 700 and maybe I'll get lucky and end up with a gun that likes the stuff.

Offline DR4NRA

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2014
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Posts: 171
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 11:31:11 AM »
Here's a question about powder. I have most of a pound of IMR 4350 I'd bought for my 7mm Rem Mag but couldn't get load I liked with it (2 - 3 MOA depending on powder charge, not horrible, but not great). Neither my Nosler nor Hornady reloading manuals have .223 loads with IMR 4350. Would it be a bad idea to try it in a .223 load? I'd use the load for short-range plinking so stellar accuracy wouldn't be a requirement.

Otherwise it won't get used, but I'd be open to trading for a powder I can use.

H335, Benchmark (my personal favorite), H322, IMR 8208XBR would be my first four choices for anything 223.
D.R

Offline tstuart34

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Posts: 885
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 06:05:28 PM »

Mott

Look at Hodgens website. If you put in a powder it will list all the caliber they tested. You can select a caliber and then it will give you load data for specific bullets that they have worked up. As always start low and work up.

I am a fan of H 335 also. It will be the closest thing you can get for milspec if I remember correct...

If you are in Lincoln DE Guns always has powder in stock. Right now they have Benchmark, Vagrant, and BLC2 which can all be used for 223.

Also stop into Guns Unlimited in Omaha and sign up for the email blast. A couple weeks ago they got a big shipment of powder pounds and 8lb jugs of H335.... they might even still have some...

Good luck.

Offline mott555

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Location: Omaha
  • Posts: 200
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2015, 02:33:58 PM »
Check the back of the cartridge case and see if it as a small cross in a circle.  That is now NATO cartridge cases are marked.  Also most of the small arms ammunition comes from the Lake City Depot and is marked LC and the year of manufacture.  If you have either of those the cases are 5.56.   
I'm finally sorting through my brass, and it looks like all my brass is NATO, marked LC 11..

So 5.56 reloading data is definitely an option for me..

Offline tstuart34

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Posts: 885
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2015, 03:36:14 PM »
watch your primers with "556" loads. make sure you are not showing over pressure signs. some primers are not as hard as mill spec. i wouldnt get to worked up om 556 vs 223 find something your rifle likes and stick with it.

Offline Dan W

  • NFOA Co-Founder
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Location: Lincoln NE
  • Posts: 8143
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2015, 03:55:49 PM »
I don't usually post reloading data, but my pet load is

mixed brass trimmed to 1.750"
Hornady 55 gr PSP w/cannelure
24.3 grains of H335
Magtech  #7 1/2 SR primers
COAL 2.220" (seat to cannelure) No crimp
Ave 2890 fps measured by chronograph
MOA or better 10 shot groups @100 yards

As usual, reduce starting loads and work up and look for accuracy nodes and pressure signs. Max load for this recipe is around 25.4 gr
Dan W    NFOA Co Founder
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.   J. F. K.

Offline SS_N_NE

  • NFOA Full Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 429
Re: Reloading 5.56x45/.223 Rem
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2015, 08:40:18 PM »
Some random thoughts about reloading from this thread:

Check out a box of factory ammo sometime. COAL is usually all over the place. Sometimes bullets vary in shape. The factory has no idea at all what will work in your firearm's particular chamber. And, what is the factory's concept of "working up" and nobody checks for pressure signs.

Cartridges for auto loaders are going to be fairly loose to function. Using a "factory crimp die" (with or without an actual crimp) ensures auto rounds chamber.  Finding the distance a bullet likes to be from the barrel rifling and the amount of pressure the bullet likes to be thrown down the barrel seem to be the big goals. Published COAL is usually the "short" version (minimum) or some factory bullet-to-rifling number, but is rarely explained. A .020" to .030" lead seems to be a good starting point. Quite often a lower pressure (less popellent charge) results in better shot placement...but depends on range being used as well as a number of other conditions.

You are basically guessing if you don't have a chronograph. But, that doesn't mean you can't reload decent ammo.