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Author Topic: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see  (Read 12530 times)

Offline depserv

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Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« on: December 09, 2014, 03:55:27 PM »
*Instead of a concealed handgun permit it should be a concealed weapon permit.  It isn't that carrying something other than a handgun is a big deal to me, it's that restrictions like that should not be placed on those who have bought a license to exercise a Constitutional right, which by the way is not a right to keep and bear handguns specifically but to keep and bear arms.  It is not a privilege to be bestowed on us by our caring big brother in the statehouse however he sees fit; it's a right that has already been infringed on far too much by having to get a license to exercise it in the first place.  So let's end the arbitrary and idiotic language that only allows a handgun to be carried concealed.

*No license should be required to carry concealed in Nebraska, but one can be issued for those who want one so they can carry in other states.  Having to get a license to bear arms is like having to get a license to attend church or read a book. 

*There should be no duty to inform.  It might be a good thing to do as a courtesy but should not be required.  A law-abiding citizen exercising his right to bear arms is not a danger to police because he is exercising that right, and a citizen who is not law-abiding will not obey the law about informing the policeman in the first place (and probably doesn't have a license anyway).  How about a law saying that all Moslems have to be registered, and have to inform any law enforcement officer they encounter that they are Islamic; that makes about as much sense (actually it makes more sense).  The citizen is no more a danger to an agent of the state than the state is to the citizen, and our laws should reflect that, in order to keep us off the slippery slope so many others have fallen victim to.   

*Instead of making places that derive above a certain amount of income from serving alcohol legally required to be felon-friendly by making it illegal for law-abiding citizens to carry in them, treat carrying under the influence like driving under the influence.  Carrying a concealed weapon is not more dangerous than driving a car.  It isn't ok to drink when you have a gun, but it isn't ok to drink and drive either, and the one is not worse than the other.  The difference in treatment is based on a false (apparent) assumption that driving is more a right than bearing arms, which I guess is considered a privilege.

There should be no place where concealed weapons can not be carried except those mandated by federal law (and those laws should be changed too, but are beyond the scope of what our legislature can do).  The only penalty for carrying into a place where an anti-gun bigot has put up a sign saying no guns allowed should be that the bigot can make you leave.   

*Any law against any kind of knife, including switchblades and gravity knives, is an illegal infringement on the right to keep and bear arms guaranteed by both our federal and state constitutions, and any city council, mayor, police chief, sheriff, police officer, or any bureaucrat who tries to infringe on that right should be sentenced to jail; this goes beyond just knives, and should be written into Nebraska law.

That's all I can think of for now.  Maybe other members have some ideas.
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Offline mott555

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2014, 05:28:15 PM »
Agreed, but most of all with point #1 simply because I had to get rid of certain pocketknives when I moved into this state because concealed carry permits don't cover knives! I'm trusted with a handgun but not a 3.5" blade?  ???

The other big one in that list would be no penalty for carrying where posted other than them asking you to leave. My previous state was basically like this and carrying concealed handguns was essentially "don't ask, don't tell."

Offline Phantom

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2014, 07:01:41 PM »
I agree with All above

and All "no guns allowed" Signage should be UNIFORM across the entire State.
Or said Sign is not valid or binding.   
"If the primates that we came from had known that someday politicians would come out of the...the gene pool, they'd a stayed up in the trees and written evolution off as a bad idea.....Hell, I always thought the opposable thumb was overrated.  "-- Sheridan, "Babylon 5"

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2014, 08:01:03 PM »
I agree.  We need to work at getting rid of gun free zones, the first step would be to make signage non enforceable, next would be to whittle away at the long list of gun free zones in the CHP law.(Standardized signage not too important if law doesn't back the signs)

Getting rid of duty to inform law enforcement needs to be done away with, the only guns that law enforcement needs to be considered with would be the unlawful ones, kinda doubt a criminal carrying a gun would inform. (Hence gun laws only effect the lawful)

I would like to see a legislative bill making any new restrictive gun laws federal or state null and void and non enforceable.( Need to put a cork in the infringements)
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline rudy

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 08:18:15 PM »
I think it would be nice to have a statewide preemption law passed which would disallow any city/local ordinance from being more strict than state law.  I know that permit holders have preemption of sorts, but extending preemption to all gun owners is a worthehile goal, I think.  It would be great to do away with Omaha's registration and their silly open carry permit.

Also, I know it would be great to have no "gun free" zones, but that may have to be done bit by bit.  One area that I think would be a good place to start is publicly funded/owned properties, like public libraries or city parks (I am thinking of Lincoln here, since libraries are posted and parks are supposedly off limits, but i have never seen a sign).

Offline Mntnman

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 08:37:25 PM »
One improvement in ALL laws would be to make term limits lifetime, not sit out and start over. Also, I do like the idea of making committee chair votes public.

Offline SS_N_NE

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 09:35:08 PM »
I still have a relatively bad feeling about my CHP. Had to pay over $250 (class and application fine), drive long distances (to class and NSP)...provide proof of identity, residency and citizenship (that is deemed ridiculous for voters to prove in various places apparently or live in this country...but I digress). Then there is the whole fingerprinting thing. So, yeah...my constitutional rights have been reduced to a privilege by NE. Not to mention feeling like a criminal. No wait, criminals carry without doing any of that. So good people are being punished for following the law by following the law.  Now I have to wonder if the police could make a mistaken visit to my house that they will enter un-announced. Could a simple traffic stop become complicated?  And, people are concerned about "registration".
Where's the right?
Iowa has a minimal class, lower cost, no fingerprinting and a BAC limit...and NE recongnizes the permit.

Offline jFader

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2014, 12:22:17 AM »
There is definitely room for improvement..... (Mr obvious)

I wonder....what is possible with this new & undoubtedly improved legislature?

Would we be selling ourselves short by not going for 'Constitutional Carry'?

I believe that we will be able make forward progress at a decent pace after years of blah blah....

It pretty much makes me sick that every year our legislature keeps adding more laws to the list....justifying their very existence...I guess that I want to be one of the clowns at the party to help make sure some of those are rolling back over reaching laws. 

Allowing teachers/faculty to carry is a no-brainer to me & I have been amazed talking to other Pro-Rights people who are against it?  I guess that sticker on the glass is sufficient...

State Preemption is a big one for me....the fact that a few cities can basically do whatever they desire against the direct wording of the Nebraska Constitution makes me want to barf.  I was amazed at how bad Omaha was until Lincoln started their backdoor registration scheme!  I lived in Omaha nearly my entire life & I would not buy a house inside the city limits ever again!

At the end of the day it is an uphill battle. The things that we know as common sense are being opposed by the media & politicians every day....

How easy would it be for a billionaire to fund a ballot initiative here in Nebraska & wipe out years of efforts & hardwork? 

I really believe in strength in numbers & now is as good a time as any to solidify our organization... to move forward and make our state a better place for future generations of firearm owners!
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Offline DR4NRA

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2014, 07:43:24 AM »
 I was amazed at how bad Omaha was until Lincoln started their backdoor registration scheme! 

Funny. There used to be a little shop on O st. called The Gun Rack bought a pistol from them and after the paper work was done they handed me a little card to fill out for LPD on the pistol. Asked Dave if I had to fill it out, answer was No, you don't live in Lincoln so it's voluntary. This was early 80's. Couple of years later it was mandatory for him to fill it out and send it in himself for all handgun purchases by Lincoln residents. Pizzed him off real good, but he had to do it to stay open. So this has been going on since the mid to late 80's.  Amazing that people are just now finding out about it.
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Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 07:45:24 AM »
I agree.  We need to work at getting rid of gun free zones, the first step would be to make signage non enforceable, next would be to whittle away at the long list of gun free zones in the CHP law.(Standardized signage not too important if law doesn't back the signs)

Yes ...  Standardized signage / placement requirements.  Aren't there warehouse clubs like Costco that are technically off limits without signage because they have a clause in your membership agreement?  That should be disallowed. 

Same goes for blanket prohibitions at malls. Do I understand that Scheels (probably the biggest firearms retailer in Lincoln) is a no-carry store, despite no signs on the door, because the whole mall area is posted somewhere?

Reduced administrative burden and fingerprinting.  The process was much easier and cheaper in Virginia.  Surely there are some good statistics out there showing that states like that do or don't (I'm banking on "don't") have any higher rates of crimes committed by CHP holders, negligent discharges by CHP holders, etc.

On the other hand (and I know this may not be popular) I actually liked the idea of a Level II carry permit with more advanced training (shelter in place, etc.) for areas like elementary schools, churches and hospitals.
  *  The main idea being that anything that would happen there would involve a thick mass of (possibly young / old / invalid) people and -- in the case of elementary schools kids at least -- a moral duty to fight back that might not exist in other scenerios.  In some of those situations a knife in trained hands may be preferable, which goes back to idea of a CWP.
  *  The seondary idea being that such areas are the most vulnerable spots for a terrorist shooting, either in the classic sense of political terrorism ala the Westgate Mall Kenya, or a simple lone nutcase.
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Offline depserv

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2014, 09:11:43 AM »
Any kind of "level II" license for carrying in certain sensitive areas would have to be issued on a shall issue basis once certain provisions are met, such as I suppose a marksmanship test, and I don't know what else, since it's kind of hard to assess how a person will do in an emergency.  Any kind of may issue license system will be abused.  My opinion is the only license any of us should need is Article 2 of the Bill of Rights.

Is South Point Mall in Lincoln posted as a felon friendly zone?  I don't remember seeing any such signs. 
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Offline mott555

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2014, 09:30:41 AM »
The Level II CHP sounds like an interesting idea. Personally I'd rather ALL CHP's be like that, but we can't have everything we want. Additional mandatory training would make it easier to sell to the general public/legislature.

Offline mott555

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2014, 09:32:54 AM »
And I've always wondered what the purpose is for fingerprinting CHP applicants? Do they get filed in a database somewhere? Or are they used as part of the background checks and run against cold cases with unidentified fingerprints on record? And if the latter, what is the success rate of catching these criminals by fingerprinting applicants (has to be dang near 0)?

From the outside looking in, it seems like unnecessary overhead with no practical purpose.

Offline RLMoeller

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2014, 09:56:28 AM »
Iowa has a minimal class, lower cost, no fingerprinting and a BAC limit...and NE recongnizes the permit.
Although you are correct, I want to point out that Nebraska evaluated all states CCW requirements to determine which states we would recognize.  That process took place prior to major changes in the Iowa carry laws.  If they were to re-evaluate, Iowa would drop off the list of recognized states for the reasons you noted above.


Offline farmerbob

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 10:16:19 AM »
It has always amazed me how many NFOA members pretend they are against gun free zones, yet they aren't willing to get rid of the law that enforces them.

Many states, including several around Nebraska, their laws do not support no gun signs, private property owners can post them but, it's up to them to ask Individual to leave, if individual refuses, law is called and a trespass warrant could be prosecuted, just like any other behavior a business doesn't agree with. (NO NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL LAW PROSECUTING INDIVIDUALS FOR EXERCISING A RIGHT)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 10:18:48 AM by farmerbob »
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Offline bullit

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 10:27:43 AM »
It has always amazed me how many NFOA members pretend they are against gun free zones, yet they aren't willing to get rid of the law that enforces them.

Is it because none of us is a member of the Unicameral?

Offline farmerbob

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 10:29:33 AM »
Although you are correct, I want to point out that Nebraska evaluated all states CCW requirements to determine which states we would recognize.  That process took place prior to major changes in the Iowa carry laws.  If they were to re-evaluate, Iowa would drop off the list of recognized states for the reasons you noted above.
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This is another thing Nebraska should look at, I believe Nebraska should recognize all other states permits, this could help build a less restrictive atmosphere that would be more inclusive for such things as constitutional carry and national reciprocity.


« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 10:32:29 AM by farmerbob »
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington

Offline ILoveCats

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 10:34:43 AM »
The Level II CHP sounds like an interesting idea. Personally I'd rather ALL CHP's be like that, but we can't have everything we want. Additional mandatory training would make it easier to sell to the general public/legislature.

Well I didn't mention it as an argument for more mandatory training for everyone.  I would like to see the current CHP issuance process made easier.   There are a lot of states where the issuance process is much cheaper and easier and they don't require prints of the sides of your hand, etc.  Are the streets running red with blood in those states?  No.  We in Nebraska are treated like criminals compared to other states' CWP applicants even if a farmer simply wants to keep a gun behind the seat of his pickup, or if an outdoorsman wants to carry a "kit gun" in his tackle box or backpack, or if a mother wants to put a pistol in her purse when she has to go to a 24 hour pharmacy at 1:00am when a kid is sick.

Many thousands of Nebraskans take to the fields every hunting season with only the hunter safety course they took in their teenage years (without a live-fire shooting test) and that seems to work pretty well.  Frankly I'm not sure why the two couldn't be merged and why we needed a separate bureaucracy to confirm proficiency.

Any kind of "level II" license for carrying in certain sensitive areas would have to be issued on a shall issue basis once certain provisions are met, such as I suppose a marksmanship test, and I don't know what else, since it's kind of hard to assess how a person will do in an emergency.  Any kind of may issue license system will be abused.  My opinion is the only license any of us should need is Article 2 of the Bill of Rights.

Those are some good points.  Bear in mind this is not my idea.  Recall the legislature tried to pass a bill last year for teachers to carry in schools and the second day of training covered things like sheltering in place.  I kind of liked the idea because - as I stated on this forum - if you're a teacher in one of my kids classroom and there's an active shooter or any other threat to kids' safety, you have a moral duty to fight to the death.  Worrying about your own safety is not an option until every kid is safe.  What was bad about the idea is that it required the school systems' knowledge and approval.



« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 10:37:46 AM by feralcatkillr »
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Offline Dan W

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 10:53:23 AM »
It has always amazed me how many NFOA members pretend they are against gun free zones, yet they aren't willing to get rid of the law that enforces them.
Are we just supposed to deem them gone?

History did not start the day you showed up here, rather late in the process I will note, and we have been fighting every year to remove gun free zones, for consistent signage requirements, for state wide preemption and to remove the penalties of gun fee zones and gotten no where.

Do you have some magic that will make this happen? If you do, I expect you will be at all the Legislative hearings this next year and share your wisdom with us.

At the very least you can quit blaming NFOA members for the gun free zones
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Offline farmerbob

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Re: Improvements in NE gun laws I'd like to see
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 11:17:53 AM »
Well actually I have been posting here on the no guns no money since 2010 so that's about enough of the Jonny come lately bull, may have had previous membership under LEO, that is what it was at Nebraska concealed carry site.

Not blaming NFOA members for anything!!! I've noticed from past discussion that some NFOA members seemed to be more for private property rights and gun free zones, not the elimination of them,just my observation.

The state capital is in your backyard not mine, 5 hour drive for me but I will try to make it.


Have you ever thought about decaff Dan???
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington