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Author Topic: Choosing a Multi Gun Division  (Read 1127 times)

Offline GreggL

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Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« on: December 17, 2014, 04:48:25 PM »

I had a chance to shoot my first Multi Gun match this year and had a blast. Not understanding the differences of divisions at the time I signed up for Open.

I believe that depending on the optic I put on my rifle I could compete in Tactical division or Limited. Are there advantages or disadvantages for a newcomer to the sport competing in one division or the other?

Also, would a Red Dot with a flip to the side magnifier count as one optical sight or would a 1-4 or 1-6 scope be a better choice for Tactical division?

And, for Limited division can you run a Red Dot and then use back BUIS's for the 100-300 yard shoots?

Thanks in advance and see you in the Spring.
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2014, 06:05:19 PM »
A flip to side magnifier will count as a single optic and will put you in Tactical.  You can use a red dot with offset irons for Limited.

I'd say go with whatever fits the equipment you already have.  If you don't have either, go with whatever turns your crank.

Or do the sensible thing and get two rifles, one set up for each class. ;D

Offline JTH

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2014, 07:19:17 PM »
I had a chance to shoot my first Multi Gun match this year and had a blast. Not understanding the differences of divisions at the time I signed up for Open.

Always a good start---because then no matter how you have things set up, it is all good.  For a first match, good choice.  You can worry about specifics of equipment AFTER the first match is safely over.  :)

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I believe that depending on the optic I put on my rifle I could compete in Tactical division or Limited. Are there advantages or disadvantages for a newcomer to the sport competing in one division or the other?

Yes and no.  Not really.  Maybe?

In this area, Tactical has the largest number of shooters in it.  As such, competition for top place is pretty fierce.

(That's not actually true.  If Lance D. and Jake B. are both shooting, then there isn't much competition for 1st and 2nd---it is pretty much just between those two.  Competition for a distant 3rd is pretty fierce among normal shooters like the rest of us, though.)

Limited simply is shot by a smaller number of people.  Doesn't make it any less fun, and makes it easier to tell your friends "I shot a match with 50 people in it, and got 8th in my division!"

Really, the only difference between Limited and Tactical is that you can put a magnified optic on your rifle.  So, the question then becomes:  How are you at 12" plates at 100, 200, and 300 yards?  Can you do that with irons or a dot at speed?  If so, you'll be fine in Limited.  Are those going to be difficult?  Then for a new shooter, Tactical might be the place to start instead, with a 1-4X or 1-6X optic.

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Also, would a Red Dot with a flip to the side magnifier count as one optical sight or would a 1-4 or 1-6 scope be a better choice for Tactical division?

Most use the 1-4X or 1-6X.  Pretty much no professional shooters use the dot/magnifier route---which doesn't really mean much on a local level.  BUT, most people with dots just stick to Limited. 

Which does lead to something that I need to make a post of its own:
In the past, people who have gone the dot/magnifier route have had to leave the magnifier in the same position for the entire match, based on how the rule is stated (which isn't clear) and a rule explanation we got from Amidon (as DNROI) way back when.

We never liked it.  (Switching the magnifier in and out without removing it from the gun seemed just like changing the magnification on a 1-4X, so it didn't make sense to us.)  But we said, "Ok, them's the rules" and went with it.

Last match we had, one of the shooters politely disagreed with us about it, but went with our rules.  He also (as was perfectly within his rights) asked the new DNROI about it---and McManus told us that Tactical allows moving the magnifier in and out as long as everything stays mounted in the same place.  He asked why we had been ruling it the other way, and when I said "Amidon said so" he just kinda let it go.  :)

The upshot is:  If you have a dot and a magnifier on a mount that allows you to switch it in and out, you CAN shoot that in Tactical, and can shoot magnified or unmagnified.  And we don't have to make a big deal about it anymore!

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And, for Limited division can you run a Red Dot and then use back BUIS's for the 100-300 yard shoots?

As long as it isn't any other type of optical sight, you can shoot any way you like.  If you even want to mount offset irons sighted in for 300 yards, you can do that.   (Um.  Please don't.  We want you to succeed.)

A dot and co-witnessed irons work perfectly well, and yes you'll still be in Limited division.

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Thanks in advance and see you in the Spring.

:)  MG is a good time, isn't it?

With all that said----everyone should shoot Heavy Metal Tactical this coming year! 
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Offline GreggL

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2014, 03:02:54 PM »

Thanks for the responses! I'll have to get out to the range and see if I can SEE a 12 inch plate at 300 yards
before I choose Limited. Any suggestions for a 1x4 scope with an illuminated reticle?

Heavy Metal Tactical is a great idea! It would REQUIRE me to purchase more guns.  :D
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Offline tstuart34

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2014, 03:33:20 PM »
Take a look at this..... jthhapkido does like it. But I love mine!

http://nebraskafirearms.org/forum/index.php/topic,13401.msg96472.html#msg96472

Offline sparky0068

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2014, 04:15:43 PM »
I've got setups for limited, tac, and heavy limited, if anyone wants to check it I'm free most Sundays.
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Offline JTH

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 07:07:06 PM »
Thanks for the responses! I'll have to get out to the range and see if I can SEE a 12 inch plate at 300 yards
before I choose Limited. Any suggestions for a 1x4 scope with an illuminated reticle?

As tstuart mentioned, the Primary Arms 1-6X is pretty good for what we do, and I did like it.  (And yes, that is my PA 1-6X for sale that he linked.  If you buy it, the PEPR mount or the PA mount in 30mm are good ones to get for our game.)

Scope-wise, I personally am partial to the Burris TAC30 (or the newer MTAC) mostly because I love the reticle.  (The PA scope is good, and people who don't like "busy" reticles tend to like it's reticle better.)

For the money (and for people getting started in MG Tactical division) something like the TAC30, the MTAC (both in 1-4X, or you can also get the MTAC in 1.5-6X), or the PA 1-6X is a good  choice.  Perfectly decent for almost all MG, and if you plan to get professional-level, it'll last until you have a better idea of the $1200 scope you plan to buy for that level of things.

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Heavy Metal Tactical is a great idea! It would REQUIRE me to purchase more guns.  :D

You are welcome.  :)

(C'mon, you know you want to do it....join the crazy people!)
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Offline bkoenig

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 07:58:35 PM »
Another vote here for the Burris scopes.  I really like my TAC30.  To be honest, I don't feel like I really give up much speed (if any) on close range targets compared to my SBR with an Eotech.  The Eotech is more forgiving of eye relief and weird head positions, but when I shoot my 1-4 I just stick my nose to the charging handle and I get the same results every time.

Offline shooter

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 10:12:07 PM »
 do they score minor and major on the power factor> you know, for the kids who use poodle shooters, and the Men who use battle rifles
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Offline JTH

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Re: Choosing a Multi Gun Division
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 11:40:57 AM »
do they score minor and major on the power factor> you know, for the kids who use poodle shooters, and the Men who use battle rifles

:)

Nope.  Back when they (for several different values of "they") used a point-valued scoring system, it was done that way.  However, now that almost everyone uses a time-based scoring system, the "power factor" is simply managed by caliber. 

For Heavy Metal and such, the minimum caliber is .308 Winchester/7.62 x51 NATO, and for everything else it is 5.45mmx39mm --- so people can't run up with a 9mm carbine.  (And if they do, truthfully, given the lack of noticeable recoil in a comped .223 plus the fact that .223s are easier to shoot at distance, the 9mm carbine isn't any advantage.)

So you can shoot Real Man™ caliber rifles in all divisions, but ONLY those rifles in Heavy Metal divisions.

....which everyone should do this year.  HEAVY METAL FOR EVERYONE!
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